German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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Buttons relative pace in clear air was greater than that of Massa's. Once free of Rosberg, He was catching Massa.
More could have been done.
David Purley

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Ray
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Re: German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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I really wish this trend of drivers pushing a rival they are racing off the track at corner exit would stop. It's extremely unprofessional. There were a few instances where drivers were literally side by side and the inside driver literally pushed the other one off track. That kind of behavior shouldn't be accepted.

beelsebob
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Re: German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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Ray wrote:I really wish this trend of drivers pushing a rival they are racing off the track at corner exit would stop. It's extremely unprofessional. There were a few instances where drivers were literally side by side and the inside driver literally pushed the other one off track. That kind of behavior shouldn't be accepted.
I don't recall one where someone wasn't given room – Webber had a whole car's width inside the white lines, he just chose to not take the risk.

munudeges
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Re: German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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ringo wrote:That's up to half of the race webber was faster by a margin lap for lap. And this is the second best RB driver vs the best Mac driver.
That's one of the reasons why Red Bull needs to review their driver options for next year assuming the opposition is now going to be closer.

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Ray
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Re: German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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beelsebob wrote:
Ray wrote:I really wish this trend of drivers pushing a rival they are racing off the track at corner exit would stop. It's extremely unprofessional. There were a few instances where drivers were literally side by side and the inside driver literally pushed the other one off track. That kind of behavior shouldn't be accepted.
I don't recall one where someone wasn't given room – Webber had a whole car's width inside the white lines, he just chose to not take the risk.
He was pushed wide into turn 1 by Massa, and then again into the wet grass by Lewis when they were scrapping after Lewis pitted. He gave Lewis miles of room when he drafted past on the straight earlier in the race and Lewis didn't give him room when he came out of the pits and Mark was legitimately dead alongside him going through turns 2 and 3.

EDIT: And I'm not talking about Webber exclusively, nor Lewis. Going into Turn 1 there were a number of instances where drivers would drive someone all the way out to the grass before the curbs to block someone from having enough racing room. That --- shouldn't be tolerated because you get incidences like Heidfeld and Buemi when you do stupid --- like that.

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HampusA
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Re: German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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It´s racing. You tell the other guy that he should not sneak his nose in or even try to pass.

Great example is Hamilton vs Alonso (great pass due to Hamilton´s extra speed he carried)
compared to Hamilton vs Webber. He wasn´t close enough to claim a spot even though he got exactly a car width but chose to exit the track instead.
The truth will come out...

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Ray
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HampusA wrote:It´s racing. You tell the other guy that he should not sneak his nose in or even try to pass.

Great example is Hamilton vs Alonso (great pass due to Hamilton´s extra speed he carried)
compared to Hamilton vs Webber. He wasn´t close enough to claim a spot even though he got exactly a car width but chose to exit the track instead.
That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about people deliberately driving another person off track to defend a position. That's exactly what Lewis did to Mark after he exited the pits. There was more than enough room for the both of them but Lewis chose to give Mark no choice but to go off track even though he had the outside position easily and safely. Going for a gap is completely different that driving someone deep into turn 1 for the sole purpose of blocking them from making the corner, ala Massa on Webber. That to me is blocking and shouldn't be allowed. That's what happened to Heidfeld. Buemi ran him off track to avoid him getting alongside for a potential pass. That's bullshit.

wesley123
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Re: German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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Ray wrote:I'm talking about people deliberately driving another person off track to defend a position. That's exactly what Lewis did to Mark after he exited the pits. There was more than enough room for the both of them but Lewis chose to give Mark no choice but to go off track even though he had the outside position easily and safely.
You know that the drivers normally take the line Hamilton pushed Webber on? The only difference now is that it was wet. What did Hamilton else had to do? Slow down? I thought this was the whole point of trying to avoid an overtaking manouvre, blocking the other from doing so. Hamilton did nothing wrong there and drove really fair.

But about the Heidfeld-Buemi incident, anyone knows why Buemi wasnt penalized or at least being investigated? Imo that was ridiculous, drivers get 90% out of the times they make contact a penalty for 'causing an avoidable collision' yet Buemi just pushes Heidfeld off track and that is okay? If I'm correct such action as Buemi did cost the life of an marshall in australia 2001. Simply ridiculous
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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ringo
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Re: German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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Ray so what did you say when Jenson slammed Hamilton into the wall in canada?
Or when Maldonado and Massa didn't give any room, as well as Shumacher in Canada who moved twice then forced Hamilton off to the side.
It seems Hamilton is always in the wrong.

If you noticed, Hamilton did not touch Webber.
Last edited by ringo on 24 Jul 2011, 20:56, edited 1 time in total.
For Sure!!

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Ray
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wesley123 wrote:
Ray wrote:I'm talking about people deliberately driving another person off track to defend a position. That's exactly what Lewis did to Mark after he exited the pits. There was more than enough room for the both of them but Lewis chose to give Mark no choice but to go off track even though he had the outside position easily and safely.
You know that the drivers normally take the line Hamilton pushed Webber on? The only difference now is that it was wet. What did Hamilton else had to do? Slow down? I thought this was the whole point of trying to avoid an overtaking manouvre, blocking the other from doing so. Hamilton did nothing wrong there and drove really fair.

But about the Heidfeld-Buemi incident, anyone knows why Buemi wasnt penalized or at least being investigated? Imo that was ridiculous, drivers get 90% out of the times they make contact a penalty for 'causing an avoidable collision' yet Buemi just pushes Heidfeld off track and that is okay? If I'm correct such action as Buemi did cost the life of an marshall in australia 2001. Simply ridiculous
He was penalized

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93348

myurr
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Re: German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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wesley123 wrote:
Ray wrote:I'm talking about people deliberately driving another person off track to defend a position. That's exactly what Lewis did to Mark after he exited the pits. There was more than enough room for the both of them but Lewis chose to give Mark no choice but to go off track even though he had the outside position easily and safely.
You know that the drivers normally take the line Hamilton pushed Webber on? The only difference now is that it was wet. What did Hamilton else had to do? Slow down? I thought this was the whole point of trying to avoid an overtaking manouvre, blocking the other from doing so. Hamilton did nothing wrong there and drove really fair.

But about the Heidfeld-Buemi incident, anyone knows why Buemi wasnt penalized or at least being investigated? Imo that was ridiculous, drivers get 90% out of the times they make contact a penalty for 'causing an avoidable collision' yet Buemi just pushes Heidfeld off track and that is okay? If I'm correct such action as Buemi did cost the life of an marshall in australia 2001. Simply ridiculous
He was penalised - 5 place drop for the next race. Possibly a little unfairly though, you could see on the replays that he was looking in his left mirror expecting Heidfeld to appear on the inside line. Heidfeld chose to go the other way and, in my opinion, a racing incident happened.

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Ray
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Re: German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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ringo wrote:Ray so what did you say when Jenson slammed Hamilton into the wall in canada?
Or when Maldonado and Massa didn't give any room, as well as Shumacher in Canada who moved twice then forced Hamilton off to the side.
It seems Hamilton is always in the wrong.

If you noticed, Hamilton did not touch Webber.
Jenson didn't slam him into the wall and said himself he couldn't see. The situations are completely different. Same with Massa in Monaco, Lewis wasn't completely alongside him like Webber was in Germany. In the Massa and Lewis situation Lewis was over halfway across a curb and then had to ride Massas side pod to make it around the corner. I consider that Massas fault however. In Silverstone however, Lewis drove into Massa and damaged his car gaining 4th place. I consider that Lewis' fault, but I'm not saying he's a dirty driver at all, he a fantastic racer.

Webber was legitimately, 100% alongside him and was driven across the curbs and onto wet grass to block his progress. I consider that blocking. I don't think he should have gotten a penalty in this race, and I think he drove a fantastic race to a well deserved win, but driving someone on the outside completely off the track should be discouraged. I can not touch another driver and still force them into a dangerous situation. Ala Heidfeld and Buemi. I do think that had he not driven Webber over the curb he'd have had a harder time gaining the win, but he drove a great race and got a much deserved win.

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HampusA
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Re: German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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It´s racing. What Buemi did was moving in braking zone.
The truth will come out...

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ringo
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Re: German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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If you watch a replay, webber didn't leave the track, he wasn't touched either.
He was just spooked and he himself went to the right.
He was not squeezed off. 1 car's width left for him.

Unless you are suggesting Hamilton makes the back step out purposely to frighten webber.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eUX5z4tT0c[/youtube]

Webber was never side by side. And still he got room.

I don't really see an issue here. As side by side on the outside of such a tight turn isn't really side by side. As you approach the apex, the outer car will fall back in a turn like that.
It's at that point webber fell back and hamilton closed the gap.

Webber was going for a non existent gap as poeple like to say when Hamilton does it. :lol:
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MrBlacky
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Re: German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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Does anyone have a link to the bbc pre-quali/race tv coverage for the german gp?

PM me if you like...