The Fanboy Yin Yang Thread

[Super racing]

That seems like it would be an interesting read, I was reffering to this interview

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbGmMur0UGQ[/youtube]
and also this quote

"I think what happened in 1989 was unforgivable, and I will never forget it. I still struggle to cope with it even now. You know what took place here: Prost and I crashed at the chicane, when he turned into me. Afterwards, I rejoined the race, and I won it, but they decided against me, and that was not justice. What happened afterwards was... a theatre, but I could not say what I thought. If you do that, you get penalties, you get fined, you lose your licence maybe. Is that a fair way of working? It is not...At Suzuka last year I asked the officials to change pole position from the right side of the track to the left. It was unfair, as it was, because the right side is always dirty, and there is less grip — you sweat to get pole position, and then you are penalized for it. And they said, "Yes, no problem". Then, what happened? Balestre gave an order that it wasn't to be changed. I know how the system works, and I thought this was really ---. So I said to myself, "OK, whatever happens, I'm going to get into the first corner first — I'm not prepared to let the guy (Alain Prost) turn into that corner before me. If I'm near enough to him, he can't turn in front of me — he just has to let me through." I didn't care if we crashed; I went for it. And he took a chance, turned in, and we crashed. It was building up, it was inevitable. It had to happen." So you did cause it then, someone said. "Why did I cause it?" Senna responded. "If you get --- every time you try to do your job cleanly, within the system, what do you do? Stand back, and say thank you? No way. You should fight for what you think is right. If pole had been on the left, I'd have made it to the first corner in the lead, no problem. That was a bad decision to keep pole on the right, and it was influenced by Balestre. And the result was what happened in the first corner. I contributed to it, but it was not my responsibility".

I found this alternate view while looking for that interview, it is also interesting

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiGUSyN9-zk[/youtube]

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The Senna Prost incidents could be construed both ways.
I personally feel Senna was in the right both times, but then I would.
A massive Prost fan friend of mine feels the same way of Prost, and I will not invalidate his argument as he will not mine.

To my eyes Senna was the only driver that could transcend the cars capabilties on a regular basis. He did not require the best car to win, he would drive the wheels off what he had.
As for the slurs against Senna and his sporting behaviour.....watch this and tell me, if he was unsporting and dirty(callous and misguided comments) what do you call this then?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pihhu5H-X9I[/youtube]

[andrew]

Peacful until Senna took Prost out twice at Japan......

For me, Senna was a dirty driver (exhibit A - punching Eddie Irvine for no reason). Prost was just in another class.

Not justified but not for no reason. I'll let you look that one up for yourself, correcting history for you is getting old.

Oh I know the history here and I don't need correcting by any Senna fanboys.

Irvine was racing Hill and got lapped by Senna - fair enough. Senna then started to go slower, got in the way of the Hill v Irvine battle and Irvine unlapped himself - nothing wrong with that. The problem was that Senna was such a big headed prat that he couldn't hack being unlapped and had a tantrum which resulted with him thumping Irvine. At least Irvine got the last word in after being hit.

As for Schumacher "celebrating", Larini is a hell of a lot more exuberant on the slow down lap but we won't mention him or show that video will we? They were probably more relieved to finish the race and put the weekend behind them or maybe Senna just wasn't that all that important to them anymore, like Schumacher isn't all that important to the younger drivers this year. To be honest if I had won a race I'd find it hard to not smile especially with the team celebrating. Did the drivers even know the guy was dead at that time or did they just know that he was injured?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Andrew,

Sorry to say but if you are going to call Senna a "big headed prat" while supporting Schumacher as your idol, then you seriously need to recalibrate your notion of reality old pal.
You cannot fathom why he is regarded as the best because he puts your man in the shade.
Where was the so called regenmeister in Donnington 1993? Senna decimated him in inferior equipment, along with the rest of the field including Prost, Hill, Hakkinen et al.
And Schumacher and Prost would easily be in most peoples top 3.

You will never understand.

[andrew]

Johnson - accept that I don't care about Senna. He is irrelevant to me as I was not a fan. Yeah the guy was a good driver but compared with other successful drivers, I don't think he puts anyone in the shade. They all stand out in their own right for different reasons.

Donington 93? Is that all you have? Ah well, first time at a track is bound to be difficult. But the 94 season in and inferior Benetton made up for that. I’m not taking anything away from Senna’s skills as a driver, I just plain don’t like the guy - just accept it like I accept that you worhsip him. Personnally, Roland Ratzenberger being killed at Imola was more important as the poor guy was only at the start of his F1 career.

As for Schumacher being my idol? I don't go in for idol worship as an idol is a deity of some sort and I am a complete atheist.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Your defence of Schumacher does reach biblical levels at times. Hence my statement.

And you must be the only person on the planet that "thinks" Ratzenbergers death was more important!
What kind of bloody comment is that? That both lost their lives that weekend isnt enough, you have to go further to say Ratzenberger's was of more importance?
Its this kind of crassness that makes me wonder sometimes....

And if you seriously think Senna would have been beaten by Schumacher in 1994 had the accident not occured, can you explain then how Damon Hill finished 1 point behind Schumacher?
Senna would have trounced Schumacher and you know it, better car or not!

I dont see you quabbling over Schumachers car dominance that led to his titles, so why should you bring that up against Senna?

[andrew]

First off, if you read my comment you will see why I for me personally Ratzenbergers death was worse. You will note that it is my opinion (which I am entitled to) but not a stone cold fact as it can only ever be an opinion due to individual preferences.

Senna's death was certainly not helped by him gunning it as soon as the safety car pitted. Lower tyre pressures causing lower ride height along with cooler tyres and kerbs on a high speed track like Imola ain't going to end well no matter who is driving. I'm not saying it was the guys own fault, but it looks like he didn't help the situation. Some say he was rattled by some kid who came from nowhere beating him and that's why he was so desperate to get away and made a mistake - who knows? No one will ever know the exact circumstances and what he was thinking.

Secondly, the 94 Williams was the best car in the feild, just like it had been in 92 and 93 but Hill rarely capitalised on that for various reasons. It's good that you can tell me what I know - never realised you had mastered mind reading!

I don't see where I am squabbling over car dominance - it is a fact that the Williams was the best car in 93 but the Benetton was a match due to it being suited to Schumachers style, at a time when he was himself worth a fair bit per lap.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Secondly, the 94 Williams was the best car in the feild, just like it had been in 92 and 93 but Hill rarely capitalised on that for various reasons. It's good that you can tell me what I know - never realised you had mastered mind reading!

[-X No mind reading involved.

But the 94 season in and inferior Benetton made up for that.

First off, if you read my comment you will see why I for me personally Ratzenbergers death was worse. You will note that it is my opinion

Does not make it any less crass or downright disgraceful that you are putting one mans death over another as more important. It is shameful.

Just when I thought you can go no lower, you say his death was a direct consequence of his actions because he "didnt help the situation". If thats not apportioning fault, then I dont know what is.

Basically mate, you have lost any respect from me as poster.

[andrew]

Does not make it any less crass or downright disgraceful that you are putting one mans death over another as more important. It is shameful.

Just when I thought you can go no lower, you say his death was a direct consequence of his actions because he "didnt help the situation". If thats not apportioning fault, then I dont know what is.

Nothing shameful at all. All deaths are terrible but Ratzenberger's death is the one that sticks in my mind more than Senna's (maybe I phrased my comments worng and you have got the wrong end of the stick). What's wrong with that?

If his death was caused by another means (e.g. car failure), kindly provide something which shows this and I will retract that statement. Most accidents that have not been caused by a mechanical failure that I can think of have had varying degrees of driver error involved which cannot be avoided as it is just the nature of the beast when someone who is driving at 100% goes that little bit further and something awful happens.

[mx_tifoso]

Wow you two are drama queens. It's obvious that you guys didn't start off here and came from somewhere else, which won't be mentioned.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Wow you two are drama queens. It's obvious that you guys didn't start off here and came from somewhere else, which won't be mentioned.

Mx I feel strongly about Senna, cant help that. But some of the comments being made really arent appropriate IMO. Politley told Andrew what I thought, Im sure we will kiss and make up WHEN HE ADMITS HE IS WRONG!
And where we both come from has literally descended into a free for all slag fest.

The internet really does bring out the best and worst in us....

[andrew]

A horrible dark place, the stuff of nightmares! A place with sensationalistic misconstrued "headlines" and lots of fanboyism. A place that should not be mentioned, for when it does it upsets the horses and causes lighting strike (like in Young Frankenstein in the scene where Marty Feldmen introduces Gene Wilder to the house keeper).

I think for the sake of humanity and everyones sanity, we should bring ths ding dong to an end, suffice to say Johnson's favorite driver was/is Senna, and I don't particularly care for the chap. The End.

[marcush.]

ah ..94..
in fac5t Senna had 4 pole positions up to his death in imola ,but zero points.
Schumachers first ever pole was in the race after sennas death.
So much for qualifying performance.
The 94 Williams up to imola was heap of --- ,it looked a bit like the Virgin of 2010 in terms of nervousness .. admittedly after the huge aero cuts Williams was back on track .

but ...who cares. the world did stop to turn for a moment,a t least that was my impression back then .Roland Ratzeberger was really a fav of mine but Sennas death was really something else again.

[Giblet]

Nico Rosberg has been in F1 a good few years now but sadly so far he is a mid-field runner at best with only brief glimmers of his old man's abilities.

Really?

He's only been in midfield cars, so what would you have him do? Beat a 7 time world champion most of the time? Oh wait.... he does.

Nico is quick, and a commodity wanted by top teams.

[Giblet]

Oh I know the history here and I don't need correcting by any Senna fanboys.

Irvine was racing Hill and got lapped by Senna - fair enough.

Thats the (unjustifiable) reason I was talking about, thanks for correcting yourself for me.

BTW, again, I am no fanboy of ANY driver or ANY team. I like the sport, and dislike some aspects of some drivers and teams.

Calling people fanboys when they talk about a driver in a positive way is weak and dismissive of the facts at hand.