2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Tizz]

You must be extremely new to Formula 1. Or, perhaps, just trolling?

You don't "know" anything, for yourself or for anybody else. That probably sounds harsh, but your statements are so far out of what is reasonable.

Russel was second in the standings after 3 races, aka, WDC candidate. Yeah, it was due to, in part, bad luck from Red Bull, but the point stands. The people in F1 - drivers, engineers, directors - aren't people that just give up and see no hope. They grind through and figure it out. They don't just say "let's just see how we do next season I guess."

If you want to be objective, then everyone is a candidate for the WDC if they can mathematically still win the WDC.

Yeah, point out that others don't know anything but yet claiming yourself to know that people in F1, or more precise drivers, engineers and directors aren't people that just give up and grind through and figure out, that they don't just say "let's see next season". There are very recent examples by the way that contradict that last claim.

You reject his statements because they are so far out of what is reasonablebut at the same time you consider Russell a candidate for the WDC because it is still mathematicallypossible. Your argumentation is a debatable to say the least. Besides that Russell was about 15 sec away from being lapped and is now trailing by 37 points with, by Toto's admission, no solution for the technical problems even close. Russells second position in the WDC was heavily influenced by incidents and is hardly representative for the Mercedes. His statement is a lot more reasonable and objective then yours and you'll find that history supports his opinion.

[lh13]

An analysis was done on the mini sectors and speeds. There was no rocket engine.
This was confirmed by independent watchers and the team.
Hamilton simply found a good setup and was using a certain racing line coming up to the last corner.

I'm happy with whatever makes you people sleep better during these difficult times.

[lh13]

Siedl and Toto confirmed the engine was the same as the others. It clearly was because in Quatar, Jedddah and Abu Dhabi the Mercedes was on par with Honda again. It was Hamilton's setup that was a calculated risk that worked.

Doesn't make sense to perpetuate rumours of this "rocket engine" anymore. Too much sensible here people to fall for that one.

They would be stupid to run an engine that only has to last 2 races in the same configuration as the engine that needs to last 7. The power difference was there, and quite obviously.

The same engine was used again afterward, why weren't the rockets turned on when it mattered most? See how crazy you sound? Anyway, evidence is already there, and I trust Toto, Shovlin and also Seidl who is an independent third party that confirmed that there was no special rocket engine.

I'm not even talking about special rocket engine. Just that the engine would have been turned up because it didn't have to last long.

Did Seidl confirm that Mercedes engine was not turned up?

[xaero]

An analysis was done on the mini sectors and speeds. There was no rocket engine.
This was confirmed by independent watchers and the team.
Hamilton simply found a good setup and was using a certain racing line coming up to the last corner.

I'm happy with whatever makes you people sleep better during these difficult times.

Lol.. few bad races due to lack of motivation and all haters crawling out of their holes

[Tvetovnato]

An analysis was done on the mini sectors and speeds. There was no rocket engine.
This was confirmed by independent watchers and the team.
Hamilton simply found a good setup and was using a certain racing line coming up to the last corner.

Nice that you picked up on the racing line in the last corner. It’s not often you see such a difference between drivers, but Lewis was really effecient through there with a super tight line every lap, using all of the inside kerb while others kept away from it.

[Hammerfist]

Do you think that now Mercedes knows how RedBull's and Ferrari's floors look they'll copy them, put it on the car in 2 weeks and win the race? F1 does not work like that, not even close.

I've not seen a struggling Charles. I don't know what you mean.

The Brazil 2021 rocket engine basically was the same as the previous ones, just mapped and used at full beans for the whole races since the aim was to use it in three or so races only.

Petronas can't find something for the E10 fuel because fuel is homologated too - no more development.

I for myself know that Russel and Hamilton won't be WDC candidates this year and it definitely is not too early to say at this point. I also don't think that it's a big deal or a shame to talk about it or accept it. We'll see how they will do next season and the seasons after, but the current season is not their's. It is how it is.

How do you know this? Do you have a source? I would think the engine freeze applies to the engine itself, as in the hardware. I have not heard of a fuel and lubricant freeze.

There are two homologation deadlines. The first was 1st March 2022, by which time the manufacturers had to freeze the ICE (the V6 engine), the turbo, the MGU-H (motor generator unit – heat), the exhaust system, the fuel specification, and the engine oil specification.

However, they still have some leeway to work on other power unit elements within this season as there is a second deadline of 1st September 2022 for a specification upgrade to the control electronics, the energy store (battery) and the MGU-K (motor generator unit – kinetic).

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1s- ... 82969/amp/

Wow. Thanks. They will be stuck with having less power until the next regs then. Not ideal.

[silver]

An analysis was done on the mini sectors and speeds. There was no rocket engine.
This was confirmed by independent watchers and the team.
Hamilton simply found a good setup and was using a certain racing line coming up to the last corner.

I'm happy with whatever makes you people sleep better during these difficult times.

Lol.. few bad races due to lack of motivation and all haters crawling out of their holes

I don't think if you understand the gravity of the situation well. Hamilton has already admitted that he is out of championship contention. In the past when problems hit, he remained optimistic and even at the beginning of the season when Ferrari and RB were showing pace, he was confident, but not anymore. They quickly used to find the root cause and fix it in the past, but it's been 2 months since they first saw the problem and still have no clear understanding. People are not writing them off, but looking at their situation, they themselves haven't sounded upbeat. With every passing day, they are accepting that they haven't done the job required. Not just on chassis, but also on engine side. So no point in using the "it's still too early” reason anymore.

[cheeRS]

You must be extremely new to Formula 1. Or, perhaps, just trolling?

You don't "know" anything, for yourself or for anybody else. That probably sounds harsh, but your statements are so far out of what is reasonable.

Russel was second in the standings after 3 races, aka, WDC candidate. Yeah, it was due to, in part, bad luck from Red Bull, but the point stands. The people in F1 - drivers, engineers, directors - aren't people that just give up and see no hope. They grind through and figure it out. They don't just say "let's just see how we do next season I guess."

If you want to be objective, then everyone is a candidate for the WDC if they can mathematically still win the WDC.

Yeah, point out that others don't know anything but yet claiming yourself to know that people in F1, or more precise drivers, engineers and directors aren't people that just give up and grind through and figure out, that they don't just say "let's see next season". There are very recent examples by the way that contradict that last claim.

You reject his statements because they are so far out of what is reasonablebut at the same time you consider Russell a candidate for the WDC because it is still mathematicallypossible. Your argumentation is a debatable to say the least. Besides that Russell was about 15 sec away from being lapped and is now trailing by 37 points with, by Toto's admission, no solution for the technical problems even close. Russells second position in the WDC was heavily influenced by incidents and is hardly representative for the Mercedes. His statement is a lot more reasonable and objective then yours and you'll find that history supports his opinion.

I swear, more and more this forum gets filled with people that aren't F1 fans and instead are internet debators who scan every post to try to see if it's possible to argue with. It wasn't this way a couple years ago. I think the reddit/twitter crowd is, unfortunately, invading F1technical.

Regarding writing off a season: by and large, F1 teams as a whole don't do that. Sure, you can point to Haas and say "see, they wrote of half of 2020 and all of 2021!" but that's not the norm. CERTAINLY that is not the norm with the top teams, like RB, Ferrari, and Merc, as you claim that I am wrong about. They only "give up" when basically they have exhausted all options and no longer have a chance of success. Again, people in F1 are the cream of the crop - all of the positions are competitive. I suppose for engineers aerospace/space roles might be more lucrative, but people in the top of their industries aren't quitters.

Again, you claim that it's more reasonable that Russell is simply out of contention for the year and should write off this season, than it is for him to be a candidate for the WDC. We're 4/23 races so far. He's a bit more than a race win away from 1st position in the WDC. Were you alive in 2007, 2010, 2012? Do you realize that a team can turn things around? Kimi was nearly two race wins (42.5 points in today's money) going into the final few races of 2007. Shouldn't Ferrari have just written off the season at the point since it was a very unlikely chance he'd win? What's most ironic IMO is that Merc is the team that has dominated for nearly 10 years, has out-engineered and out-solutioned (heh) every other team, and yet people like you are now preaching doom and gloom because we've had 4 races where they haven't won (mind you, Russell has been in the top 5 each of those races).

Look, I'm not placing bets on Merc winning the championships this year - that's fair and reasonable. But no one reasonable would write them off this early.

[ringo]

Todt has succeeded in preventing LH from being the undisputed GOAT in terms of F-1 success.
Everything starting from the 2021 floor regs, to the engine freeze, were intended to weaken Mercedes. And it is working very well. Sometimes I do wonder if Pat Symonds was sharing Mercedes technical secrets and weaknesses with the other teams for the them to catch. He was so quick to speak about the impulse rocket heat exchanger technology, it really makes you wonder which other beans he was spilling.
Totto needs to call for an investigation of confidentiality preaches by the FIA technical arm.
Every single intervention has weakened mercedes and strengthened others... it could be too much of a coincidence.

[SmallSoldier]

Todt has succeeded in preventing LH from being the undisputed GOAT in terms of F-1 success.
Everything starting from the 2021 floor regs, to the engine freeze, were intended to weaken Mercedes. And it is working very well. Sometimes I do wonder if Pat Symonds was sharing Mercedes technical secrets and weaknesses with the other teams for the them to catch. He was so quick to speak about the impulse rocket heat exchanger technology, it really makes you wonder which other beans he was spilling.
Totto needs to call for an investigation of confidentiality preaches by the FIA technical arm.
Every single intervention has weakened mercedes and strengthened others... it could be too much of a coincidence.

That’s just reaching a higher level of tin foil hat… Why is it so hard to admit that at this point in the championship, that others have simply done a better job with the new regulations? The fact that Toto isn’t calling for an investigation is because they realize that it isn’t about looking outside for their current performance, they have to look inside and solve the issues they are dealing with.

[maxxer]

You must be extremely new to Formula 1. Or, perhaps, just trolling?

You don't "know" anything, for yourself or for anybody else. That probably sounds harsh, but your statements are so far out of what is reasonable.

Russel was second in the standings after 3 races, aka, WDC candidate. Yeah, it was due to, in part, bad luck from Red Bull, but the point stands. The people in F1 - drivers, engineers, directors - aren't people that just give up and see no hope. They grind through and figure it out. They don't just say "let's just see how we do next season I guess."

If you want to be objective, then everyone is a candidate for the WDC if they can mathematically still win the WDC.

Yeah, point out that others don't know anything but yet claiming yourself to know that people in F1, or more precise drivers, engineers and directors aren't people that just give up and grind through and figure out, that they don't just say "let's see next season". There are very recent examples by the way that contradict that last claim.

You reject his statements because they are so far out of what is reasonablebut at the same time you consider Russell a candidate for the WDC because it is still mathematicallypossible. Your argumentation is a debatable to say the least. Besides that Russell was about 15 sec away from being lapped and is now trailing by 37 points with, by Toto's admission, no solution for the technical problems even close. Russells second position in the WDC was heavily influenced by incidents and is hardly representative for the Mercedes. His statement is a lot more reasonable and objective then yours and you'll find that history supports his opinion.

I swear, more and more this forum gets filled with people that aren't F1 fans and instead are internet debators who scan every post to try to see if it's possible to argue with. It wasn't this way a couple years ago. I think the reddit/twitter crowd is, unfortunately, invading F1technical.

Regarding writing off a season: by and large, F1 teams as a whole don't do that. Sure, you can point to Haas and say "see, they wrote of half of 2020 and all of 2021!" but that's not the norm. CERTAINLY that is not the norm with the top teams, like RB, Ferrari, and Merc, as you claim that I am wrong about. They only "give up" when basically they have exhausted all options and no longer have a chance of success. Again, people in F1 are the cream of the crop - all of the positions are competitive. I suppose for engineers aerospace/space roles might be more lucrative, but people in the top of their industries aren't quitters.

Again, you claim that it's more reasonable that Russell is simply out of contention for the year and should write off this season, than it is for him to be a candidate for the WDC. We're 4/23 races so far. He's a bit more than a race win away from 1st position in the WDC. Were you alive in 2007, 2010, 2012? Do you realize that a team can turn things around? Kimi was nearly two race wins (42.5 points in today's money) going into the final few races of 2007. Shouldn't Ferrari have just written off the season at the point since it was a very unlikely chance he'd win? What's most ironic IMO is that Merc is the team that has dominated for nearly 10 years, has out-engineered and out-solutioned (heh) every other team, and yet people like you are now preaching doom and gloom because we've had 4 races where they haven't won (mind you, Russell has been in the top 5 each of those races).

Look, I'm not placing bets on Merc winning the championships this year - that's fair and reasonable. But no one reasonable would write them off this early.

Thinking about last year Merc wasnt favorite also after first few races , year before i think Ferrari had the fuel thing.
Merc develops always over the races.With so many races , i havent really seen a team which dominated on every single track even though it seems Mercedes have done but its not true. Thing was that even if HAM had an offday he still scored points , now George is doing that

[Espresso]

I swear, more and more this forum gets filled with people that aren't F1 fans and instead are internet debators who scan every post to try to see if it's possible to argue with. It wasn't this way a couple years ago. I think the reddit/twitter crowd is, unfortunately, invading F1technical.

Fully agree, needs a highlight

[silver]

Look, I'm not placing bets on Merc winning the championships this year - that's fair and reasonable. But no one reasonable would write them off this early.

Lewis Hamilton says Mercedes are not fighting for F1 World Championship after Emilia Romagna GP Sprint struggle

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... t-struggle

[Big Tea]

There are still almost as many points achievable than there are in a 'normal' whole season. Especially with Sprint and fast lap points to be added.

[lh13]

An analysis was done on the mini sectors and speeds. There was no rocket engine.
This was confirmed by independent watchers and the team.
Hamilton simply found a good setup and was using a certain racing line coming up to the last corner.

I'm happy with whatever makes you people sleep better during these difficult times.

Lol.. few bad races due to lack of motivation and all haters crawling out of their holes

I never left! Unlike some others, who aren't found anywhere these days.