2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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basti313
basti313
28
Joined: 22 Feb 2014, 14:49

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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OverheatedTurbo wrote:
07 Jul 2025, 13:42
Yeah, its getting real tiring reading his anti-Kimi tirades. What Kimi was missing is a bit more confidence in the high speed. That issue is from the Monza crash, seems like it looms over him still, although he is getting better. What the team needs is to pluck Han ah from Red Bull or get some new blood for the strategy department and experts in tires.
I do not think this is the story. Neither the one before, nor this one.
It is simply a question of tires and experience:
1. Only drivers who have two years in F2 on the same tire have a decent outing in F1 in the first year. Anyone with two little experience on these tires is having a hard time. Most drivers also have a bad, strongly perf shifting season in F2 before they get a very good second season. By the way...remembering also Hamilton vs. Alonso, where Alonso in the meantime explicitly said that the gamechanger for Ham was the tires, they had one year before in F2.
Now Kimi is one of the examples...had only one year, not consistent, in F2. This leaves its marks.

2. No rookie driver currently can drive in the rain. They just do not learn it in F2. Nearly all crashed in some way. Kimi had his share with braking early. If we look into F2 this weekend...they simply red flag any rain.

Now, was it a bad decision to pull Kimi into F1? Not sure if anyone can answer this. It looks like too early, but Merc was locked and needed to secure the asset. So maybe it was too early and at the same time just right in terms of strategy.
Don`t russel the hamster!

TeamKoolGreen
TeamKoolGreen
-5
Joined: 22 Feb 2024, 01:49

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Russell said he could have got 3rd or 4th. But that's not what he's there for. And its true. Especially considering the title fight is no longer realistic for him.

At least he finished in the points

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mvfad
-1
Joined: 04 Mar 2020, 16:22

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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The “problem” with Kimi is the high expectations generated by him supposedly being a "generational talent". And this is Mercedes’ own fault, as there was no need to rush his debut in F1. Even more so when they had a young driver, F2 runner-up, available at the time.

Antonelli is a great driver, he will still improve a lot and will certainly be an above-average driver, but he is not Max Verstappen, Lewis Hamilton or Fernando Alonso in terms of pure talent/speed...

A lot of the hype that has been created about Kimi is due to his results in F4 and FRECA but few people actually follow the F1 feeder series... Kimi had been “practing” for/in F4 since he was 12 or 13 years old and despite having been champion in the first year of FRECA, in my opinion, the driver who caught the most attention that season was Martinius Stenshorne. And even in F2, among those who skipped F3, the driver who caught my attention the most in 2024 was Joshua Dürksen, not Kimi.

SB15
SB15
1
Joined: 15 Feb 2025, 22:47

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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mvfad wrote:
07 Jul 2025, 18:21
The “problem” with Kimi is the high expectations generated by him supposedly being a "generational talent". And this is Mercedes’ own fault, as there was no need to rush his debut in F1. Even more so when they had a young driver, F2 runner-up, available at the time.

Antonelli is a great driver, he will still improve a lot and will certainly be an above-average driver, but he is not Max Verstappen, Lewis Hamilton or Fernando Alonso in terms of pure talent/speed...

A lot of the hype that has been created about Kimi is due to his results in F4 and FRECA but few people actually follow the F1 feeder series... Kimi had been “practing” for/in F4 since he was 12 or 13 years old and despite having been champion in the first year of FRECA, in my opinion, the driver who caught the most attention that season was Martinius Stenshorne. And even in F2, among those who skipped F3, the driver who caught my attention the most in 2024 was Joshua Dürksen, not Kimi.
Really this is whole lotta of nothing when you consider that most of the DNF’s were not caused by him, the bad strategy was on the team in Bahrain. The only mistakes I’ve seen was in Monaco and Austria but other than that his results was purely because of the teams mishaps.

Honestly you guys are too harsh on Antonelli without realizing how much he’s been unlucky this season.

MB_Racer
MB_Racer
1
Joined: 31 May 2025, 00:44

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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zibby43 wrote:
06 Jul 2025, 21:30
This is one of the more embarrassing results I’ve ever witnessed for this team.
I fully agree with you sadly! What an extremely poor performance, the entire strategy team looked like real clowns today… we can’t and are not allowed of making fun of Ferrari strategy team after today… we got the karma back I guess #-o

Matt2725
Matt2725
9
Joined: 02 Mar 2023, 13:12

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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The one thing Antonelli has done this season in my mind, is force George to really up his game.

I'm sure it's nothing personal, but if you prove yourself to be better than the "generational talent", all of a sudden you look even better.

Although he seemed off his game yesterday, which could have been a result of the early gamble being scuppered by the extended VSC periods. I can imagine it's easy to just throw your hands up and check out at that point.

MB_Racer
MB_Racer
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Joined: 31 May 2025, 00:44

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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erudite450 wrote:
06 Jul 2025, 22:42
zibby43 wrote:
06 Jul 2025, 21:30
This is one of the more embarrassing results I’ve ever witnessed for this team.
I think Germany 2019 was just as bad.

Russell's performance on the inters was strange. The Mercedes DNA always suited cold/wet weather. But he wasn't as fast as I expected. He ended up behind a snappy Ferrari.
I can’t agree about the first part and Germany… sure it was embarrassing but at least the w11 was fast and we could have had a double podium…

here in Silverstone we get the clown award of the year. Even worst than Ferrari (strategy 2025 combined) which says it all :cry: :twisted:

MB_Racer
MB_Racer
1
Joined: 31 May 2025, 00:44

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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trinidefender wrote:
07 Jul 2025, 06:01
Sorry if I missed this but just getting the chance to watch the race. What was the thinking behind putting Russel onto hards on his last stop? If they wanted to put him on slicks then why not mediums. There was only 13 laps left and mediums are softer and have a lower operating temperature range so will work better in the slightly wet conditions.

Alternatively why not wait a few more laps then put him on softs.

That decision really seemed mind boggling.

Good point really looking forward to hear the race debrief to understand the thinking behind cause it makes no sense to me !

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bluechris
9
Joined: 26 Jun 2019, 20:28
Location: Athens

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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I think a big role that Kimi cannot show his talent is the car that is really bad. Russel is many years in the team and no matter what, knows the DNA of it even though he really upped his game.
Let's hope that the 2026 will be better, then we will see if Kimi is up for the task.

erudite450
erudite450
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Joined: 14 Mar 2019, 13:50

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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basti313 wrote:
07 Jul 2025, 14:47
OverheatedTurbo wrote:
07 Jul 2025, 13:42
Yeah, its getting real tiring reading his anti-Kimi tirades. What Kimi was missing is a bit more confidence in the high speed. That issue is from the Monza crash, seems like it looms over him still, although he is getting better. What the team needs is to pluck Han ah from Red Bull or get some new blood for the strategy department and experts in tires.
2. No rookie driver currently can drive in the rain. They just do not learn it in F2. Nearly all crashed in some way. Kimi had his share with braking early. If we look into F2 this weekend...they simply red flag any rain.
I have been lamenting about the direction in which the sport is heading with regards to wet weather racing. I remember watching a Euro F3 race of Hamilton in appalling conditions in Spa. The kids just got on with it. The cars are safe, the tracks are safe so what are we doing? Spray/visibility issue will always be there in wet conditions. That shouldn't stop racing in the pinnacle of motorsports.

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AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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I think Mercedes is just lacking an experienced team leader and benchmark since Hamilton left. Russell is far out of his depth and showed his limitations as a team leader in Silverstone. Hamilton would have finished on the podium with the Mercedes if he was still there just like he did last year. Looks where he finished compared to Leclerc.

So far all I see is people blaming Mercedes for the strategy but the strategy was all on Russell. Russell made the call to box on the formation lap when it was too wet. Antonelli said it was too wet and refused. Even a guy that only did 9 races knew not to box. The other veterans who also tend to do well in wet races (Max, Lewis) also said it was too wet for slicks.
Russell’s radio messages from the formation lap
Russell I don’t think this will be long. Be ready to box now.
Dudley So it’ll be a standing start.
Dudley So if you feel it is dry enough, George, it’s your call.
Russell Just be ready.
Dudley Affirm.
Russell I don’t think it is.
Dudley We’re ready
Russell What tyre would you go?
Dudley We would go hard tyre.
Russell Confirm when the rain is coming.
Dudley 20 to 25 minutes.
Russell Be ready
Dudley Copy that
Russell Very wet here
Russell Let’s go for it. Box, box.

Dudley Copy, box, box.
https://www.racefans.net/2025/07/07/rus ... led-wrong/

Then Russell tried to justify it by claiming that it "would have worked if it weren't for those meddling kids"...Hardly a legitamate excuse to not expect yellows in conditions like this. He's not inexperienced so it's just poor judgement. Even if by some miracle Russell ended up in the lead by lap 5, he still had zero chance to win that race with the inevitable safety cars and the inevitable rocketship Mclarens that not even Verstappen could stop. So what was he thinking?

Russell also made the call to box far too early at the end and spun the car off and out of the points when all he had to do was stay calm and box a bit later and he would have finished in the top 4 at the home race for the team. He should have consolidated on a difficult weekend for the team with only 1 car left in the race but instead he got reckless with it like he usually does. Russell looked like a gambling addict who couldn't stop playing the slots machine. He wasn't making good decisions. On the formation lap you have a guy literally saying "It's really wet here", and then seconds later "lets box". This is not rational. It's irresponsible. Maybe for a back-marker team it is okay, but not for Mercedes-Benz.

I don't really understand why so many people are trusting of George Russell to lead this team or that he's maximizing the situation. He hasn't really proven to be any more than someone who can set fast qualifying laps. Hamilton's race pace was often better than Russell in 2022-2024 and Merc's tire degradation issues are exacerbated by the fact that Hamilton left. Russell was always inferior with tire management and there's no reason to think Russell changed in the 6 months after Abu Dhabi 2024 where Hamilton started on the back rows of the grid and caught and passed Russell by the final lap to drive home that point... #-o

Furthermore, Russell has never dragged a slower car to a pole or a win like Max, Lewis, or Alonso have done in their careers. He had chances. Hamilton was the one who did it for Merc. He won in Silverstone and Spa last year when Merc was not the fastest. For the usual suspects: Hamilton passed Russell before Russell's PU failed in Silverstone, and Russell would never have been ahead of Hamilton if they both ran the same strategy in Spa. I am not a Hamilton cheerleader but I am not blind to his ability even at 40. Yes, Russell can win with the fastest car mostly only that. The true greats do even more than that and Toto Wolff and Mercedes know that otherwise George Russell would already have his contract. There is a reason that Max and Lewis rarely have a bad day in the rain and always make a good recovery even when they make mistakes.

Quantum, Matt, TeamKoolGreen, etc don't bother. I am not arguing with you anymore. I know where you stand already. "Ham, Max overrated. George can do no wrong. We don't need Max. Mercedes bad"
It doesn't turn.

SB15
SB15
1
Joined: 15 Feb 2025, 22:47

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
07 Jul 2025, 23:25
I think Mercedes is just lacking an experienced team leader and benchmark since Hamilton left. Russell is far out of his depth and showed his limitations as a team leader in Silverstone. Hamilton would have finished on the podium with the Mercedes if he was still there just like he did last year. Looks where he finished compared to Leclerc.

So far all I see is people blaming Mercedes for the strategy but the strategy was all on Russell. Russell made the call to box on the formation lap when it was too wet. Antonelli said it was too wet and refused. Even a guy that only did 9 races knew not to box. The other veterans who also tend to do well in wet races (Max, Lewis) also said it was too wet for slicks.
Russell’s radio messages from the formation lap
Russell I don’t think this will be long. Be ready to box now.
Dudley So it’ll be a standing start.
Dudley So if you feel it is dry enough, George, it’s your call.
Russell Just be ready.
Dudley Affirm.
Russell I don’t think it is.
Dudley We’re ready
Russell What tyre would you go?
Dudley We would go hard tyre.
Russell Confirm when the rain is coming.
Dudley 20 to 25 minutes.
Russell Be ready
Dudley Copy that
Russell Very wet here
Russell Let’s go for it. Box, box.

Dudley Copy, box, box.
https://www.racefans.net/2025/07/07/rus ... led-wrong/

Then Russell tried to justify it by claiming that it "would have worked if it weren't for those meddling kids"...Hardly a legitamate excuse to not expect yellows in conditions like this. He's not inexperienced so it's just poor judgement. Even if by some miracle Russell ended up in the lead by lap 5, he still had zero chance to win that race with the inevitable safety cars and the inevitable rocketship Mclarens that not even Verstappen could stop. So what was he thinking?

Russell also made the call to box far too early at the end and spun the car off and out of the points when all he had to do was stay calm and box a bit later and he would have finished in the top 4 at the home race for the team. He should have consolidated on a difficult weekend for the team with only 1 car left in the race but instead he got reckless with it like he usually does. Russell looked like a gambling addict who couldn't stop playing the slots machine. He wasn't making good decisions. On the formation lap you have a guy literally saying "It's really wet here", and then seconds later "lets box". This is not rational. It's irresponsible. Maybe for a back-marker team it is okay, but not for Mercedes-Benz.

I don't really understand why so many people are trusting of George Russell to lead this team or that he's maximizing the situation. He hasn't really proven to be any more than someone who can set fast qualifying laps. Hamilton's race pace was often better than Russell in 2022-2024 and Merc's tire degradation issues are exacerbated by the fact that Hamilton left. Russell was always inferior with tire management and there's no reason to think Russell changed in the 6 months after Abu Dhabi 2024 where Hamilton started on the back rows of the grid and caught and passed Russell by the final lap to drive home that point... #-o

Furthermore, Russell has never dragged a slower car to a pole or a win like Max, Lewis, or Alonso have done in their careers. He had chances. Hamilton was the one who did it for Merc. He won in Silverstone and Spa last year when Merc was not the fastest. For the usual suspects: Hamilton passed Russell before Russell's PU failed in Silverstone, and Russell would never have been ahead of Hamilton if they both ran the same strategy in Spa. I am not a Hamilton cheerleader but I am not blind to his ability even at 40. Yes, Russell can win with the fastest car mostly only that. The true greats do even more than that and Toto Wolff and Mercedes know that otherwise George Russell would already have his contract.

Quantum, Matt, TeamKoolGreen, etc don't bother. I am not arguing with you anymore. I know where you stand already. "Ham, Max overrated. George can do no wrong. Mercedes bad"
Of course the Russell fans will disagree and try to make an argument as much as they could but you’re right because the misjudgments to pit for Hards early and say “It would’ve worked” is not something a top team like Mercedes would desire.

Then you go ahead and pit extremely early for Hards when conditions were at best, suited for at least the Softs. But here comes Toto saying that the tyre deg was bad on the Friday that they didn’t go for the mediums… Which means that the development direction was not good.

Really, Mercedes needs a Max Verstappen and frankly Max needs a team like Mercedes when it comes to the environment, and the amount engineers and professionals who would back the project.

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Lasssept
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Joined: 09 Feb 2024, 01:13

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Mirror
And, at Mercedes, they look set to end the argument once and for all. They have made George Russell wait but at no point has he doubted that his future lies with the Silver Arrows. "The likelihood I'm not at Mercedes next year is, I think, exceptionally low," he said ahead of the British Grand Prix.

And his patience is set to be rewarded in the coming weeks with the potential for a deal to be agreed by the next race in Belgium at the end of this month. Russell has made no contact whatsoever with Red Bull or other teams about a 2026 seat, further evidence of his belief that he has nothing to worry about.
link

basti313
basti313
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Joined: 22 Feb 2014, 14:49

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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"The likelihood I'm not at Mercedes next year is, I think, exceptionally low,"

I agree on that. He will most probably replace Bottas who will join Caddi.
Don`t russel the hamster!

kurtj
kurtj
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Joined: 30 Nov 2024, 15:04

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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basti313 wrote:
08 Jul 2025, 11:05
"The likelihood I'm not at Mercedes next year is, I think, exceptionally low,"

I agree on that. He will most probably replace Bottas who will join Caddi.
I imagine Red Bull 2026 with Tsunoda and Hadjar. :lol: :lol: :lol: