McLaren MCL33

[makecry]

We're not gonna see any major bardgeboard/mid-wing updates. The last bardgeboard update was the last thing they really did specifically for the 2018. I think they've been working, since last year, at redesigning/repackaging the side-pods. They're gonna move some of the contents from the side-pods to above the PU, space vacated by the Honda PU. The new nose was designed to work with the 2019 side-pods. Even the new wing has 2019 reg in mind. That's my guess, my hope, based on what we've been seeing them doing in testing.

Well, they had new sidepods made long ago, but they never shipped out, guess that was when they found their issues on track and they wouldn't work without more repackaging

I haven't chatted to anyone for a while 'cause I've been on holiday, but the last tie I did they were still going to keep bringing pieces to the car, basically anything that trickles down from the '19 car and will bolt on.

Are you talking about the current sidepods that were introduced in Spain or is this a different spec not seen yet?

No new side pods were introduced. They have been running the same one.

[diffuser]

I agree, basically the same sidepods.

[charliesmithhd]

Well, they had new sidepods made long ago, but they never shipped out, guess that was when they found their issues on track and they wouldn't work without more repackaging

I haven't chatted to anyone for a while 'cause I've been on holiday, but the last tie I did they were still going to keep bringing pieces to the car, basically anything that trickles down from the '19 car and will bolt on.

Are you talking about the current sidepods that were introduced in Spain or is this a different spec not seen yet?

No new side pods were introduced. They have been running the same one.

What was different about them? The general curvature or the inlets?

[godlameroso]

This wasn't just a test for the sidepods but the undercut and floor too.

That's where they've been having problems, right where they meet the floor between the two sculpted cuts. Just below the 'dell technologies' sticker. The flow from the top of the sidepod and the vortex generators rolls over to the underside there.

I see the "CCC" between the last "L" in DELL and the "h" in Tech on the right side. The air appears to detach there or get turbulent but the flow on the floor is good. I guess the expectation is the air flow stick to the side of that? You can see the air coming down from the top is pulling the air down off the side of the sidepod down to the floor (under hnologi).

There's always a boundary layer and it always has turbulence, but that doesn't mean that flow is detaching as you say. I wonder if they're getting enough air over the floor, they don't have as many wings to channel air in that direction. I don't know how well those vortex generators work.

[zoroastar]

That's where they've been having problems, right where they meet the floor between the two sculpted cuts. Just below the 'dell technologies' sticker. The flow from the top of the sidepod and the vortex generators rolls over to the underside there.

I see the "CCC" between the last "L" in DELL and the "h" in Tech on the right side. The air appears to detach there or get turbulent but the flow on the floor is good. I guess the expectation is the air flow stick to the side of that? You can see the air coming down from the top is pulling the air down off the side of the sidepod down to the floor (under hnologi).

There's always a boundary layer and it always has turbulence, but that doesn't mean that flow is detaching as you say. I wonder if they're getting enough air over the floor, they don't have as many wings to channel air in that direction. I don't know how well those vortex generators work.

seems to me that if it was just a matter of certain parts (vortex generators, or too simple bargeboards) not working good enough we would have seen a push to develope those areas to rectify them. the fact that they havent changed much all year on the sides tells me that it must be something that cant be dealt with without a total redesign. in other words, they really screwed up on this one. but im not an expert by any means.
ps. for the same reasons, i do tend to believe it probably has to do with the floor area, or the packaging. both areas that we wouldnt necesarilly see their development. or a combination of those and other things.

[diffuser]

I see the "CCC" between the last "L" in DELL and the "h" in Tech on the right side. The air appears to detach there or get turbulent but the flow on the floor is good. I guess the expectation is the air flow stick to the side of that? You can see the air coming down from the top is pulling the air down off the side of the sidepod down to the floor (under hnologi).

There's always a boundary layer and it always has turbulence, but that doesn't mean that flow is detaching as you say. I wonder if they're getting enough air over the floor, they don't have as many wings to channel air in that direction. I don't know how well those vortex generators work.

seems to me that if it was just a matter of certain parts (vortex generators, or too simple bargeboards) not working good enough we would have seen a push to develope those areas to rectify them. the fact that they havent changed much all year on the sides tells me that it must be something that cant be dealt with without a total redesign. in other words, they really screwed up on this one. but im not an expert by any means.
ps. for the same reasons, i do tend to believe it probably has to do with the floor area, or the packaging. both areas that we wouldnt necesarilly see their development. or a combination of those and other things.

Merc released a major change in that area this year but they didn't change PUs last year. I also think that Merc will have another major overhaul in this area in the off season. So this new Merc sidepode/bardgeboard solution is a compromise on what they're gonna do next year. I don't think that McLaren have the financials to do the 2 step like Merc. There are crash structures on the side of the car that need modifying then testing which you typically do in the off season. Plus I think McLaren are gonna move stuff above the PU to shrink the sidepods, again not something you do during the season. So yes they need a total redesign. Total screw up ? a total screw up would imply that they did something wrong. This is more of a lack of doing anything and falling behind in this area. I think the PU switch had alot to do with that.

Anyways, I'm just guessing ... I have no real insight into what they've got up in the drawing boards.

[godlameroso]

I see the "CCC" between the last "L" in DELL and the "h" in Tech on the right side. The air appears to detach there or get turbulent but the flow on the floor is good. I guess the expectation is the air flow stick to the side of that? You can see the air coming down from the top is pulling the air down off the side of the sidepod down to the floor (under hnologi).

There's always a boundary layer and it always has turbulence, but that doesn't mean that flow is detaching as you say. I wonder if they're getting enough air over the floor, they don't have as many wings to channel air in that direction. I don't know how well those vortex generators work.

seems to me that if it was just a matter of certain parts (vortex generators, or too simple bargeboards) not working good enough we would have seen a push to develope those areas to rectify them. the fact that they havent changed much all year on the sides tells me that it must be something that cant be dealt with without a total redesign. in other words, they really screwed up on this one. but im not an expert by any means.
ps. for the same reasons, i do tend to believe it probably has to do with the floor area, or the packaging. both areas that we wouldnt necesarilly see their development. or a combination of those and other things.

It absolutely needs a redesign, something that would take too much time and effort to do this season. They're still going to bring parts they can bolt on, so you never know.

[the EDGE]

There's always a boundary layer and it always has turbulence, but that doesn't mean that flow is detaching as you say. I wonder if they're getting enough air over the floor, they don't have as many wings to channel air in that direction. I don't know how well those vortex generators work.

seems to me that if it was just a matter of certain parts (vortex generators, or too simple bargeboards) not working good enough we would have seen a push to develope those areas to rectify them. the fact that they havent changed much all year on the sides tells me that it must be something that cant be dealt with without a total redesign. in other words, they really screwed up on this one. but im not an expert by any means.
ps. for the same reasons, i do tend to believe it probably has to do with the floor area, or the packaging. both areas that we wouldnt necesarilly see their development. or a combination of those and other things.

It absolutely needs a redesign, something that would take too much time and effort to do this season. They're still going to bring parts they can bolt on, so you never know.

Could it be as simple as the wheelbase being to short? I remember reading that the longer wheelbase of Merc & Ferrari allow them to work the air better between the front wing and leading floor edge

[GoranF1]

seems to me that if it was just a matter of certain parts (vortex generators, or too simple bargeboards) not working good enough we would have seen a push to develope those areas to rectify them. the fact that they havent changed much all year on the sides tells me that it must be something that cant be dealt with without a total redesign. in other words, they really screwed up on this one. but im not an expert by any means.
ps. for the same reasons, i do tend to believe it probably has to do with the floor area, or the packaging. both areas that we wouldnt necesarilly see their development. or a combination of those and other things.

It absolutely needs a redesign, something that would take too much time and effort to do this season. They're still going to bring parts they can bolt on, so you never know.

Could it be as simple as the wheelbase being to short? I remember reading that the longer wheelbase of Merc & Ferrari allow them to work the air better between the front wing and leading floor edge

Could it be that the wheelbase is not good enough(either way) for Renault PU?

[godlameroso]

seems to me that if it was just a matter of certain parts (vortex generators, or too simple bargeboards) not working good enough we would have seen a push to develope those areas to rectify them. the fact that they havent changed much all year on the sides tells me that it must be something that cant be dealt with without a total redesign. in other words, they really screwed up on this one. but im not an expert by any means.
ps. for the same reasons, i do tend to believe it probably has to do with the floor area, or the packaging. both areas that we wouldnt necesarilly see their development. or a combination of those and other things.

It absolutely needs a redesign, something that would take too much time and effort to do this season. They're still going to bring parts they can bolt on, so you never know.

Could it be as simple as the wheelbase being to short? I remember reading that the longer wheelbase of Merc & Ferrari allow them to work the air better between the front wing and leading floor edge

There might be some truth to that as well, the wheelbase determines the rake between the front wing bargeboard foot plate and the diffuser, combining all 3 to control one long flow structure may have some benefit.

[Nonserviam85]

McLaren should try and run last years sidepods or similar shape with smaller dimensions, my guess is the huge undercut in these years design creates the flow separation issues. No wonder the big three abandoned this shape altogether.

[diffuser]

It absolutely needs a redesign, something that would take too much time and effort to do this season. They're still going to bring parts they can bolt on, so you never know.

Could it be as simple as the wheelbase being to short? I remember reading that the longer wheelbase of Merc & Ferrari allow them to work the air better between the front wing and leading floor edge

There might be some truth to that as well, the wheelbase determines the rake between the front wing bargeboard foot plate and the diffuser, combining all 3 to control one long flow structure may have some benefit.

I think that with Ferrari, the increase in wheelbase was to make more room in that mid-wing area. RBR went the other way by cheating the rules with regards to where the sidepods can start and made room by pushing the sidepods back (kind of). I remember EB talking about it at winter testing. He mentioned that McLaren had look at doing something similar to RBR but thought it was illegal. Obviously it wasn't. Like everything there are trade offs in making a longer wheelbase.

[PhillipM]

McLaren should try and run last years sidepods or similar shape with smaller dimensions, my guess is the huge undercut in these years design creates the flow separation issues. No wonder the big three abandoned this shape altogether.

They won't fit. The packaging on the renault is very different.

[zoroastar]

There's always a boundary layer and it always has turbulence, but that doesn't mean that flow is detaching as you say. I wonder if they're getting enough air over the floor, they don't have as many wings to channel air in that direction. I don't know how well those vortex generators work.

seems to me that if it was just a matter of certain parts (vortex generators, or too simple bargeboards) not working good enough we would have seen a push to develope those areas to rectify them. the fact that they havent changed much all year on the sides tells me that it must be something that cant be dealt with without a total redesign. in other words, they really screwed up on this one. but im not an expert by any means.
ps. for the same reasons, i do tend to believe it probably has to do with the floor area, or the packaging. both areas that we wouldnt necesarilly see their development. or a combination of those and other things.

Merc released a major change in that area this year but they didn't change PUs last year. I also think that Merc will have another major overhaul in this area in the off season. So this new Merc sidepode/bardgeboard solution is a compromise on what they're gonna do next year. I don't think that McLaren have the financials to do the 2 step like Merc. There are crash structures on the side of the car that need modifying then testing which you typically do in the off season. Plus I think McLaren are gonna move stuff above the PU to shrink the sidepods, again not something you do during the season. So yes they need a total redesign. Total screw up ? a total screw up would imply that they did something wrong. This is more of a lack of doing anything and falling behind in this area. I think the PU switch had alot to do with that.

Anyways, I'm just guessing ... I have no real insight into what they've got up in the drawing boards.

yea. the thing is, every team are pushing the limits. the room you have to "mess up" anything in f1 is tiny if you want to be competitive. the people that are screaming about mclarens "failure" and dont take into account the complete engine swap dont really get it i dont think. it f***n sucks just the same.

[diffuser]

I don't think taking up more space is gonna help you. If anything it's gonna hurt.