2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

[mzso]

Not also that the 2026 rules allow the output power to be reduced by 450kW under full throttle. Since the MGUK is to be 350kW, either the MGUK goes to 0 and then the ICE reduces 100kW (why would you do that?) or the MGUK goes from 350kW deployment to 100kW recovery somewhere down the straight.

There is also a power ramp specified - it can only reduce by 100kW per second.

So if I understand right you can generate electricity by:

• Regen braking
• Up to 100kW at full throttle
• Pressing the pedal during acceleration

Do you mean only full throttle by the way, or can they generate at partial throttle as well?

An interesting thing for the 2026 rules is that they are allowed to recover 9MJ, but can only store 4MJ.
4MJ recovery is a around 11.4s.
9MJ recovery is a around 25.7s.

Not many tracks have 25s of hard braking, if any.

A few tracks have straights longer than 11s.

It looks to me that the MGUK will only deploy at full power for short periods - mainly after slow corners, and there will be a lot of recovery at the back end of straights.

I am not sure why they bothered to put the 9MJ recovery per lap in the rules. It seems an unnecessary restriction.

Technically the PU rules must look great to OEMs.

But I have serious doubts as to what it will do for racing.

Will the cars be able to crack 300km/h on straights?
Will overtaking be achieved by having less recovery rather than by outbraking an opponent?

Is there any point in generating more than you can store. Feeding the H to K makes sense, recovers otherwise wasted energy. But K regen you can only store. Generating more would only make sense if there's something else that uses a substantial amount of electricity.
Active suspension? What else? Suction fan? Electric propeller? (There are no other regulations released other than PU, right?)

By the way is that 4MJ storage capacity or amount of energy allowed to be stored?

What does the ramp accomplish?

[Juzh]

Will the cars be able to crack 300km/h on straights?

I believe yes, but probably not in normal race conditions, only when overriding default deployment settings.

Will overtaking be achieved by having less recovery rather than by outbraking an opponent?

Very likely. This is happening in FE all the time and it appalling to watch.

[Zynerji]

I hope 2030 is a rotating detonation engine feeding 2 mgu-h turbochargers that power front and rear electric motors.

AWD, torque vectoring, synth-fueled turbogenerators. 2016 chassis + halo and 2023ish wings floor and tyres. No batteries. 550kg. Jet sound.

Daydreaming, I know. But all the cool stuff lives there.

It's more than mere daydreaming, since it's physically impossible for all that to be 550kg.
What's the point of the 2016 chassis? It was already pick-up truck proportioned.

Not physically impossible for weight, at all.
And I was just after the smaller cars.

[mzso]

Not physically impossible for weight, at all.
And I was just after the smaller cars.

Oh? You need (to stay at F1 levels) a 750kW generator, and four motors of equal total power which are even heavier. I'm quite sure the detonation engine wouldn't be zero weight either. Plus the "2016 chassis" is already a big heavy one.

Smaller cars are possible (not with 2016 chassis), but wouldn't be 550kg. You just need to limit the length via regulation, and the cars would become broader.

[wuzak]

I hope 2030 is a rotating detonation engine feeding 2 mgu-h turbochargers that power front and rear electric motors.

AWD, torque vectoring, synth-fueled turbogenerators. 2016 chassis + halo and 2023ish wings floor and tyres. No batteries. 550kg. Jet sound.

Daydreaming, I know. But all the cool stuff lives there.

It's more than mere daydreaming, since it's physically impossible for all that to be 550kg.
What's the point of the 2016 chassis? It was already pick-up truck proportioned.

Not physically impossible for weight, at all.
And I was just after the smaller cars.

550kg would be impossible due to improved safety features (including the Halo, SIPS, just stronger chassis) and bigger wheels.

They did miss an opportunity to reduce the weight of the power unit.

Also, is that 550kg without driver? Which would be 630kg with driver, or around the same as the V10 and pre-kers V8 era

[NL_Fer]

In this video you can see the SOC on the steering wheel, and it seems to suggest that there is regen happening midcorner and even while accelerating. In turn 10 you can see the SOC increasing from 65% at the apex to 68/69% until it goes down again. It looks to me, that at least in 2020 it was possible to run the MGU-K against the ICE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9nYB57MLJY

Must be MGU-H charging the ES on partial throttle.

[Tommy Cookers]

In this video you can see the SOC on the steering wheel, and it seems to suggest that there is regen happening midcorner and even while accelerating. In turn 10 you can see the SOC increasing from 65% at the apex to 68/69% until it goes down again. It looks to me, that at least in 2020 it was possible to run the MGU-K against the ICE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9nYB57MLJY

Must be MGU-H charging the ES on partial throttle.

would you explain how that is done ?
back pressure ?

(though casual readers might think that we think that 2026 cars will have an MGU-H)

[Zynerji]

It's more than mere daydreaming, since it's physically impossible for all that to be 550kg.
What's the point of the 2016 chassis? It was already pick-up truck proportioned.

Not physically impossible for weight, at all.
And I was just after the smaller cars.

550kg would be impossible due to improved safety features (including the Halo, SIPS, just stronger chassis) and bigger wheels.

They did miss an opportunity to reduce the weight of the power unit.

Also, is that 550kg without driver? Which would be 630kg with driver, or around the same as the V10 and pre-kers V8 era

I was more calculating the loss of the ICE, transmission, Batteries, and most of the fuel. Radiators, intercoolers, wiring harness and liquid oil/coolant would be 90% reduced as well. Adding 1 turbo and a 150mm wide tube for RDE combustion while also reducing the plan-form of the car should easily knock off 250kg, I estimate.

[mzso]

Adding 1 turbo and a 150mm wide tube for RDE combustion while also reducing the plan-form of the car should easily knock off 250kg, I estimate.

You did also say "that power front and rear electric motors." Electric motors/generators have a lot of weight. And you need to have them double, for generation and for traction.

[Zynerji]

Adding 1 turbo and a 150mm wide tube for RDE combustion while also reducing the plan-form of the car should easily knock off 250kg, I estimate.

You did also say "that power front and rear electric motors." Electric motors/generators have a lot of weight. And you need to have them double, for generation and for traction.

No generation on wheel motors (no batteries). Someone (YASA) Has recently launched 450hp flat electric motors. One in front and rear driven by each MGUH should give plenty of power for a 600ishKG weight.

[NL_Fer]

In this video you can see the SOC on the steering wheel, and it seems to suggest that there is regen happening midcorner and even while accelerating. In turn 10 you can see the SOC increasing from 65% at the apex to 68/69% until it goes down again. It looks to me, that at least in 2020 it was possible to run the MGU-K against the ICE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9nYB57MLJY

Must be MGU-H charging the ES on partial throttle.

would you explain how that is done ?
back pressure ?

(though casual readers might think that we think that 2026 cars will have an MGU-H)

Retard the ignition for a tiny bit. It would increase the amount of exhaust gas and pressure in the in manifold. At some point the MGU-H must brake the turbo to regulate the pressure at the intake manifold.

[NL_Fer]

What is was thinking about:

Under braking, the 450kw MGU-K must be able to lock the rear wheels when the speed and downforce drops while decelerating. Would it be allowed to increase the ICE idle torque to reduce engine braking?

[Zynerji]

What is was thinking about:

Under braking, the 450kw MGU-K must be able to lock the rear wheels when the speed and downforce drops while decelerating. Would it be allowed to increase the ICE idle torque to reduce engine braking?

No. Because all torque demand is tied to pedal position.

[Tommy Cookers]

What is was thinking about:
Under braking, the 450kw MGU-K must be able to lock the rear wheels when the speed and downforce drops while decelerating. Would it be allowed to increase the ICE idle torque to reduce engine braking?

No. Because all torque demand is tied to pedal position.

PU torque output is tied to accelerator pedal position and PU rpm by the mandated map - (at present anyway)
neither engine-braking torque nor ICE torque output exist as far as the rule-makers are concerned

btw it's a 350 kW MGU-K

[wuzak]

Not physically impossible for weight, at all.
And I was just after the smaller cars.

550kg would be impossible due to improved safety features (including the Halo, SIPS, just stronger chassis) and bigger wheels.

They did miss an opportunity to reduce the weight of the power unit.

Also, is that 550kg without driver? Which would be 630kg with driver, or around the same as the V10 and pre-kers V8 era

I was more calculating the loss of the ICE, transmission, Batteries, and most of the fuel. Radiators, intercoolers, wiring harness and liquid oil/coolant would be 90% reduced as well. Adding 1 turbo and a 150mm wide tube for RDE combustion while also reducing the plan-form of the car should easily knock off 250kg, I estimate.

The PU weighs 150kg.

The ES weighs 30kg.

Not sure about gearbox and ancillaries.

Your RDE will not be weightless.

You will need a generator on the RDE which won't be weightless.

The RDE will need to be more efficient than the current ICE (unlikely) if it is to use less fuel. Unless it has less power, which means that you will need a battery to store recovered energy so that it can be deployed on demand (I assume the RDE will be at constant speed/power, as they will not be as responsive to power demand as the current ICE).

And you will need drive motors.

2026 MGUK is to be 350kW and minimum 16kg. There also has to be a reduction gear to connect to the engine. That has a minimum weight of 4kg. But that only has to get the speed down to the ICE speed (~10,000rpm), yours will have to get down to wheel speed (~400rpm @ 350kph).

And you will need 2 of them, at least.

You won't need engine radiator and intercooler, but you would still need coolers for the motors, battery and control electronics.

I don't think you'd save 250kg. Maybe 100kg, if you're lucky!

Edit: Corrected the minimum weight of the MGUK transmission.