Meh. Still a passenger worth of weight to ditch, awd, and an engine never raced before.
You have a great imagination, Wuzak.
So what are your numbers?
What power will the RDE provide?
Will it be constant speed/output?
What will it weigh?
What size and weight is the generator?
What size and weight for the drive motors?
What power for the drive motors?
Typically series hybrids have engine and generator of much less power then the peak drive motor power. The peak power is produced using power from both the generator and the battery.
So what size battery is required? The current size battery will not provide a very long period at maximum power.
Adding 1 turbo and a 150mm wide tube for RDE combustion while also reducing the plan-form of the car should easily knock off 250kg, I estimate.
You did also say "that power front and rear electric motors." Electric motors/generators have a lot of weight. And you need to have them double, for generation and for traction.
No generation on wheel motors (no batteries). Someone (YASA) Has recently launched 450hp flat electric motors. One in front and rear driven by each MGUH should give plenty of power for a 600ishKG weight.
600kg for the motors?
I'm gonna assume you meant 60. In any way you need twice as much to begin with, because you need to generate the electricity from the engine so that's 120kg. And I don't think a high power/temperature ICE (detonation engine or not) will be much smaller than 100kg. Plus cooling for motors/engine another 50kg(?) maybe. So that's 200-270kg just for power. Not counting fuel.
It seems to me, pretty much with the pulse for a rotating detonation engine. Only the pulses go around in a circle
But I fail to see how are they even viable for hybridization. They exclusively produce thrust, by the looks of it. Don't have shafts like jet engines through which power can be transferred, via mechanical rotation. Just cyclical rocket engines. How would you produce power from supersonic airflow, that's pulsed to make matters worse?
Correct, they are intended as rocket engines to produce thrust. Their potential advantage in rocketry is in combustion efficiency due to supersonic combustion (detonation). Zynerji is saying to use them as a gas generator for an MGUH. Would have to run the numbers on them for such a purpose. No moving parts, so lightweight, but would require a pressurized fuel source.
You did also say "that power front and rear electric motors." Electric motors/generators have a lot of weight. And you need to have them double, for generation and for traction.
No generation on wheel motors (no batteries). Someone (YASA) Has recently launched 450hp flat electric motors. One in front and rear driven by each MGUH should give plenty of power for a 600ishKG weight.
600kg for the motors?
I'm gonna assume you meant 60. In any way you need twice as much to begin with, because you need to generate the electricity from the engine so that's 120kg. And I don't think a high power/temperature ICE (detonation engine or not) will be much smaller than 100kg. Plus cooling for motors/engine another 50kg(?) maybe. So that's 200-270kg just for power. Not counting fuel.
A 1L three cylinder turbo, based around the current style V6s, should be below 100kg and produce around 400kW. Maybe 80 or 90kg.
Running it as a generator for a series hybrid you can run them at constant rpm, and have the turbocharger mechanically linked to the engine as a turbo compound.
16kg (minimum) for 350kW motors for 2026 PU regulations. So two of them - one front, one rear, would give 700kW (938hp) for around 32kg, not including cables, and controllers.
Alternatively, an option would be for a 3 motor setup, like in many performance EVs. One at the front, two at the rear. Make them smaller at 250kW and have a total output of 750kW (1,005hp).
Power t the wheels from the battery could be restricted to 350kW, as per the 2026 rules, with the rest coming from a generator on the ICE. So improving the ICE would still give an advantage.
The original thought was to retrofit one into the center cartridge of a turbo charger to make a self-contained axial turbo that then spins a MGU-H.
Sorry folks. I read lots of tech articles. Part of how my mind works is taking unconnected parts of dis-similar systems and recombining them into new arrangements.
The MGU->Impeller->RDE (stationary, holds shaft fluid bearing) ->Exducer shaft arrangement has been on my mind for a bit for it's power, size and efficiency.
This is the only way I've come up with to harness it in a car or for a home generator, and it makes me daydream of Jet power in F1.
Correct, they are intended as rocket engines to produce thrust. Their potential advantage in rocketry is in combustion efficiency due to supersonic combustion (detonation). Zynerji is saying to use them as a gas generator for an MGUH. Would have to run the numbers on them for such a purpose. No moving parts, so lightweight, but would require a pressurized fuel source.
Correct, they are intended as rocket engines to produce thrust. Their potential advantage in rocketry is in combustion efficiency due to supersonic combustion (detonation). Zynerji is saying to use them as a gas generator for an MGUH. Would have to run the numbers on them for such a purpose. No moving parts, so lightweight, but would require a pressurized fuel source.
Liquid Propane
I think you’re just throwing ideas around without any regard with how they would work with each other, tbh, or within the scope of what F1 is for the manufacturers.
It’s like those sci-fi technology cutaway drawings on how “an X-wing works” or a “the inner workings of a light saber”.
RDEs as they currently exist are reacting fuel with pure oxygen, like most rockets, not compressed air. Can the RD part be performed in the presence of a nitrogen dilution (air)? What pressures would this require if so? Otherwise, you're carrying fuel and oxidizer on board and using the RDE tech as-is (as a liquid fuel rocket) in order to produce the jet that turns the MGUH. Ultimately it's a question of (for a series hybrid) what's the most mass efficient way to burn the chemical fuel. ChatGPT is not to be taken seriously.
Conceptually it seems like this would have a lot to offer; some OEMs have researched it. However it is 1:1 ratio w/ piston travel whereas rotary MGUs in practice (in F1 and in EVs) are usually operating at much higher speeds relative to typical ICEs. If the linear motor can be solved for the application I would think the piston speed could be extremely high without connecting rods and bearings.
Last edited by vorticism on 15 Mar 2023, 22:02, edited 1 time in total.
16kg (minimum) for 350kW motors for 2026 PU regulations. So two of them - one front, one rear, would give 700kW (938hp) for around 32kg, not including cables, and controllers.
16kg sound like a stretch, and you still need to double that weight, since you need equal amount of generation in this series hybrid setting. Also you need a cooling system for such motors, radiators pipes, fluid. Even if they would be 95% efficient (unlikely) you need to transfer 18kW of heat and quickly, because motors are not as tolerant for heat as engines.
And about the manufacturers in F1. What I know is that F1 can never go 100% electric, as FE has that contract. F1 will always need some form of fossil/synthetic fuel burn for power. A gas/electric turbine turning an electric drive train is the inevitable future.
Ultimately it's a question of (for a series hybrid) what's the most mass efficient way to burn the chemical fuel.
It's more efficient not to burn fuel. But use it in a fuel cell instead. Which avoids doubling the electric capacity, since no generation is necessary. I sooner expect this happening then a series hybrid.
