2023 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 30 - July 02

[vorticism]

Could be more crude: physical contact switches on or past the kerbs, wherever needed. If you tag it, then that's confirmation.




So... Omit the kerbs, have a plain asphalt shoulder past the paint line. Install a line of switches in the paint line at corner entry and exit. Wire them bright lights near the area; if the light flashes, immediate confirmation, and any camera could pick it up.

[TimW]

Couldn't they make the outside kerbs lower/ off camber? Then current F1 cars would heavily ride on the plank and it would simply be slower. Might be acceptable for motoGP as well.

[ValeVida46]

Couldn't they make the outside kerbs lower/ off camber? Then current F1 cars would heavily ride on the plank and it would simply be slower. Might be acceptable for motoGP as well.

+1 This idea.

Real-time penalty for exceeding the limits of the track.

[vorticism]

Edit- Was the original idea for kerbs that they provide less traction than plain asphalt?

[Big Tea]

It does not need anything very technical. the distance from the tyre edge to a known point on the car, or rather one central to the front 'axle' and one rear, and a metallic paint line at this distance from the track edge would cover it. Nothing is 100% accurate all the time, but anything not immediately in or out could be studied by FIA then not just any possible infringement so they could deal with it sooner. Complicating it, a barcode could just say 'foul' if read
but I think drivers wil soon get the idea if it is enforced everywhere

[AR3-GP]

Couldn't they make the outside kerbs lower/ off camber? Then current F1 cars would heavily ride on the plank and it would simply be slower. Might be acceptable for motoGP as well.

+1 This idea.

Real-time penalty for exceeding the limits of the track.

Real time punishment is especially important for the races. While some may think this situation where drivers simply have their lap deleted in qualy is sufficient, drivers are rarely facing consequences for exceeding track limits in races. They get a few warnings before they get a "black flag", but what if a driver waits until the last lap to break the track limits in order to gain an extra tenth to stay just out of the DRS gap? Should a race be decided like this?

it would make more sense for track limits to always slow the driver down so that they are punished when they make mistakes and that they cannot strategically "use their strikes" without consequence.

[AR3-GP]

Could be more crude: physical contact switches on or past the kerbs, wherever needed. If you tag it, then that's confirmation.

https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/ima ... 5DKG0_AS01

There is a lot of margin for unintended and ambiguous situations with a system like this. What if two cars trip the track edge sensors at the same time, on the same part of the track? How do you know which car tripped it? What if the car bounces and "jumps" over the sensors? So you can see that it's exceeded, but the sensor doesn't trigger.

This is also something I've seen in Tennis. The sensor in the net gets tripped for a "let" when there was no let. Likewise when a let occurs and the sensor doesn't trigger.

[AR3-GP]

But Ferrari’s Charles Leclerc would like a return to one of the previous solutions at the Red Bull Ring, by using the kerb as the cut-off for track limits rather than the white line (which is no longer possible because of the standardised policing at every track).

“This track is particularly tricky, especially Turn 10, because the nature of the corner is that the car is getting lighter in the middle of the corner, and then however the car is positioned there, it has a big influence on the exit,” Leclerc said.

“And from where we are, so low in the car, we cannot see anything.

“I think the helmet cam is very representative of what we are seeing, and we are not seeing at all the white lines.

“Hopefully in the future in tracks like these we can have a bit more margin, and that they understand that from the car it’s just impossible to judge.”

Leclerc and Verstappen felt other parts of the lap would also benefit from specific treatment, such as Leclerc suggesting a wider white line at Turn 4 and Verstappen feeling that track limits need not be applied at Turn 1 as the yellow sausage kerb on the exit slows cars down anyway.

Leclerc’s Ferrari team-mate Carlos Sainz agreed that the visibility of the white line at Turn 10 is a problem because the drivers also cannot feel it in the car, and would prefer a “natural limit” like the gravel that exists at other corners around the lap.

Sainz also raised a separate issue from qualifying, which is that the laps were being deleted – or reviewed and not deleted – too slowly in a live session.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/take-my- ... imits-ire/

[vorticism]

Could be more crude: physical contact switches on or past the kerbs, wherever needed. If you tag it, then that's confirmation.

https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/ima ... 5DKG0_AS01

There is a lot of margin for unintended and ambiguous situations with a system like this. What if two cars trip the track edge sensors at the same time, on the same part of the track? How do you know which car tripped it? What if the car bounces and "jumps" over the sensors? So you can see that it's exceeded, but the sensor doesn't trigger.

This is also something I've seen in Tennis. The sensor in the net gets tripped for a "let" when there was no let. Likewise when a let occurs and the sensor doesn't trigger.

Bouncing shouldn't be likely because I'm also suggesting to omit the kerbs and go back to a plain asphalt shoulder. Switches in the track limit line. Depending on sparseness of the switches, YES, only the most skilled drivers might attempt to thread the needle. Actually this shouldn't be possible because you'd have to put an entire tire outside the line which would be obvious visually.

What if two cars trip the track edge sensors at the same time, on the same part of the track? How do you know which car tripped it?

How would this be possible? You driving on car on top of the other? Pretty sure that's against the sporting regs.

[AR3-GP]

Sainz also points out how the time delays meant that he had to burn an extra set of tires because he didn't know if his lap was good or not:

“The main issue this qualifying was how long the FIA was taking to decide,” Sainz said.

“I went wide I think in Turn 1 in Q2, run two, and I was P2, and because we didn’t know and the FIA couldn’t tell us whether I was going to get the lap thrown away, I had to go and use another set of tyres.

“Which, obviously, is quite a bit of an issue going into tomorrow. In the end the lap was not deleted.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/take-my- ... imits-ire/

That's just as ridiculous as Gasly having a lap deleted and then having it reinstated.

[AR3-GP]

How would this be possible? You driving on car on top of the other? Pretty sure that's against the sporting regs.

Two cars in the same corner and in the vicinity of the sensors. How do you know which one tripped the contact sensor?

[vorticism]

How would this be possible? You driving on car on top of the other? Pretty sure that's against the sporting regs.

Two cars in the same corner and in the vicinity of the sensors. How do you know which one tripped the contact sensor?

It would depend on the circuit layout (electrical circuit). If they are all in series this might be a problem. Otherwise they are independent, each sending a signal or lighting an LED.

[search]

Sainz also points out how the time delays meant that he had to burn an extra set of tires because he didn't know if his lap was good or not:

“The main issue this qualifying was how long the FIA was taking to decide,” Sainz said.

“I went wide I think in Turn 1 in Q2, run two, and I was P2, and because we didn’t know and the FIA couldn’t tell us whether I was going to get the lap thrown away, I had to go and use another set of tyres.

“Which, obviously, is quite a bit of an issue going into tomorrow. In the end the lap was not deleted.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/take-my- ... imits-ire/

That's just as ridiculous as Gasly having a lap deleted and then having it reinstated.

I was wondering why he did another attempt, but this explains it of course. As a result, he now has no new softs for the Sprint Shootout left, in case it stays dry:

[codetower]

How would this be possible? You driving on car on top of the other? Pretty sure that's against the sporting regs.

Two cars in the same corner and in the vicinity of the sensors. How do you know which one tripped the contact sensor?

It would depend on the circuit layout (electrical circuit). If they are all in series this might be a problem. Otherwise they are independent, each sending a signal or lighting an LED.

Doesn't need to be this "high-tech". All you need is to set up some hight speed cameras running at about 240fps, and a staff of about 20 doing nothing but monitoring the curbs during qualifying. The problem is they probably have a staff of about 4 guys trying to keep track of every car on every turn. They can get it correct, they just can't provide feedback quick enough.

[vorticism]

Doesn't need to be this "high-tech". All you need is to set up some hight speed cameras running at about 240fps, and a staff of about 20 doing nothing but monitoring the curbs during qualifying. The problem is they probably have a staff of about 4 guys trying to keep track of every car on every turn. They can get it correct, they just can't provide feedback quick enough.

Wat. A contact switch is not high tech compared to high speed cameras and requires no 20 man team of reviewers. A downside is, you need a lot of switches, but I like the carnival atmosphere a string of lights might provide.