Silly Season 2018/2019

[Pyrone89]

Bottas is doing pretty well to be honest. All he isn't doing is beating Hamilton, who is expecting that? You can't really ask or expect any more than what he's already doing. If Ocon didnt exist at Merc right now, Toto would sign Bottas again in an instant.

Yes Valtteri is perfect. Most of the times his races have gone badly is because of things happening, like Charles. He's a No2 is all, same as Rosberg and Jenson and Heikki. He often loses positions wheel to wheel, or has contact, or both, and can take ages to put together a pass, so even tho he is pretty fast he's a wingman. That's perfect, alongside Lewis. There aren't that many No2's with the right temperament.

And Lewis, well everyone can see he's made the difference the last 3 years, for Ferrari he represents the WDC in a box! And conversely Mercedes can't afford to lose him, if all they've got to replace him is Ocon. I can't even imagine how much he can ask for to re-sign for 2021! Even for 2013 Niki had to go and plead with the board for enough budget to sign him.

That was before Verstappen happened. Hamilton has to realize he needs Merc harder than they need him if he wants WDC titles. Merc can just go for Verstappen who is also much younger (the future) when he is free of contract after next year. Merc know that they have the best resources, best car package and are the ‘kingmaker’ and thus can dictate negotiations.

[GPR-A]

Bottas is doing pretty well to be honest. All he isn't doing is beating Hamilton, who is expecting that? You can't really ask or expect any more than what he's already doing. If Ocon didnt exist at Merc right now, Toto would sign Bottas again in an instant.

Yes Valtteri is perfect. Most of the times his races have gone badly is because of things happening, like Charles. He's a No2 is all, same as Rosberg and Jenson and Heikki. He often loses positions wheel to wheel, or has contact, or both, and can take ages to put together a pass, so even tho he is pretty fast he's a wingman. That's perfect, alongside Lewis. There aren't that many No2's with the right temperament.

And Lewis, well everyone can see he's made the difference the last 3 years, for Ferrari he represents the WDC in a box! And conversely Mercedes can't afford to lose him, if all they've got to replace him is Ocon. I can't even imagine how much he can ask for to re-sign for 2021! Even for 2013 Niki had to go and plead with the board for enough budget to sign him.

That was before Verstappen happened. Hamilton has to realize he needs Merc harder than they need him if he wants WDC titles. Merc can just go for Verstappen who is also much younger (the future) when he is free of contract after next year. Merc know that they have the best resources, best car package and are the ‘kingmaker’ and thus can dictate negotiations.

Mercedes has the option of Leclerc too, for 2021. Imagine Verstappen signing Mercedes for 2021 and RB Honda gets it absolutely right for 2021 with Ric going back to RB.

[Pyrone89]

Yes Valtteri is perfect. Most of the times his races have gone badly is because of things happening, like Charles. He's a No2 is all, same as Rosberg and Jenson and Heikki. He often loses positions wheel to wheel, or has contact, or both, and can take ages to put together a pass, so even tho he is pretty fast he's a wingman. That's perfect, alongside Lewis. There aren't that many No2's with the right temperament.

And Lewis, well everyone can see he's made the difference the last 3 years, for Ferrari he represents the WDC in a box! And conversely Mercedes can't afford to lose him, if all they've got to replace him is Ocon. I can't even imagine how much he can ask for to re-sign for 2021! Even for 2013 Niki had to go and plead with the board for enough budget to sign him.

That was before Verstappen happened. Hamilton has to realize he needs Merc harder than they need him if he wants WDC titles. Merc can just go for Verstappen who is also much younger (the future) when he is free of contract after next year. Merc know that they have the best resources, best car package and are the ‘kingmaker’ and thus can dictate negotiations.

Mercedes has the option of Leclerc too, for 2021. Imagine Verstappen signing Mercedes for 2021 and RB Honda gets it absolutely right for 2021 with Ric going back to RB.

Yeah that is the risk, and the reason why I think many will stay put in 2021 with perhaps and unusual one year contract or many clauses to not do an Alonso style move

[izzy]

That was before Verstappen happened. Hamilton has to realize he needs Merc harder than they need him if he wants WDC titles. Merc can just go for Verstappen who is also much younger (the future) when he is free of contract after next year. Merc know that they have the best resources, best car package and are the ‘kingmaker’ and thus can dictate negotiations.

Well this is the first year Max has been consistent enough to be a contender, I see Mercedes wanting Lewis for a year or two still, as long as they have the option. Tho if Lewis wants to go to Ferrari then Max is the only possible replacement. (Charles may or may not be on that level we have more to find out I think).

But either way, Lewis or Max, the lesson from the last 3 seasons is that any team needs a Lewis to win. As I showed you by pm Lewis could theoretically have won in the Red Bull last year! Or in the Ferrari of course and the same in 2017. Max is still improving he isn't the finished article just yet, i mean in a year or two he'd have made his tyres last in Hungary, kind of thing. So will he be a Lewis in 2020 or 2021? Mercedes can't really know. So from that point of view the whole $400m whatever depends on keeping Lewis. Of course they have a whole year to watch

[PlatinumZealot]

The high downforce redbull cars make drivers look good. Look and Vettel and Ricciardo. Two Perez level drivers really and Max is not much better.

[Pyrone89]

Everyone, before you respond to mr. “Vettel, RIC and VER are Perez level drivers”, please check his avatar and you know enough. Dont spend time on him.

[AMG.Tzan]

Vettel going back to RB sounds like a nice rumor...but i don't think this is true! He is at Ferrari, he should just finish his career there...he has nothing more to prove to anyone, he's got 4 titles...a 5th title will be a great title only with Ferrari!!
But let's say that Vettel indeed goes back to RB...who do you think will replace him?? Bottas or Ricciardo i believe!

[i70q7m7ghw]

Bottas is doing pretty well to be honest. All he isn't doing is beating Hamilton, who is expecting that? You can't really ask or expect any more than what he's already doing. If Ocon didnt exist at Merc right now, Toto would sign Bottas again in an instant.

Yes Valtteri is perfect. Most of the times his races have gone badly is because of things happening, like Charles. He's a No2 is all, same as Rosberg and Jenson and Heikki....

Both Rosberg and Button beat Hamilton in terms of WDC points at least once. I don't think any of those drivers consider themselves a number 2. Bottas certainly doesn't otherwise he would be very pleased with this season so far. Mercedes clearly aren't viewing him as a number 2 long long term either.

They are looking to Ocon because they (the board of directors) are thinking about what happens post-Hamilton. As everyone here has said, Hamilton is Merc's golden goose, but he is at the tail-end of his career now. They've got the perfect opportunity to benchmark the next goose against the current one, Bottas doesn't seem to be capable of producing the goods so it makes sense to consider Ocon.

So why is it not a clear cut decision? There's a chance Ocon doesn't perform, and ends up costing the team a constructors title, just look at Gasly right now.

Everyone is looking at Bottas's seat as a key, but I think Hulkenberg's could be even more important. If Renault drop Hulkenberg that could open the door for Ocon to Renault which was originally the plan. Mercedes can then review Ocon against Ricciardo and retain Bottas. Problem solved.

[izzy]

Both Rosberg and Button beat Hamilton in terms of WDC points at least once. I don't think any of those drivers consider themselves a number 2. Bottas certainly doesn't otherwise he would be very pleased with this season so far. Mercedes clearly aren't viewing him as a number 2 long long term either.

They are looking to Ocon because they (the board of directors) are thinking about what happens post-Hamilton. As everyone here has said, Hamilton is Merc's golden goose, but he is at the tail-end of his career now. They've got the perfect opportunity to benchmark the next goose against the current one, Bottas doesn't seem to be capable of producing the goods so it makes sense to consider Ocon.

So why is it not a clear cut decision? There's a chance Ocon doesn't perform, and ends up costing the team a constructors title, just look at Gasly right now.

Everyone is looking at Bottas's seat as a key, but I think Hulkenberg's could be even more important. If Renault drop Hulkenberg that could open the door for Ocon to Renault which was originally the plan. Mercedes can then review Ocon against Ricciardo and retain Bottas. Problem solved.

well none of them would call themselves a No2, and if they're made to feel like the No2, like Massa, or Bottas last year, their performance falls off massively. But from the team's point of view there mostly is a No1/No2 and Valtteri is that person isn't he? Niki used to call Lewis 'Lewis' and Valtteri 'Bottas' !

But a No2 is really valuable to a team, I mean look at Red Bull, because mostly F1 drivers get into F1 by winning everything and they don't have the temperament to get beaten weekend after weekend. Rosberg was a No2 on pace and he couldn't take it and cheated. Jenson was the greatest No2 ever, being a nice, generous person and instinctively fair. Valtteri is like Jenson and if he'd been in the Brawn in 2009 he'd have been a wdc too.

But yes Ocon would be a risk, as in he might take Lewis out at T1 and I agree Renault is the place for him. He must be at least a bit faster than Valtteri in the sim or he wouldn't even be on their radar would he, but would he be such a good fit in the team? I don't think so and I don't see him as a Lewis replacement, personally. Charles might be, let's see, otherwise there is only Max, after Lewis.

[Pyrone89]

Both Rosberg and Button beat Hamilton in terms of WDC points at least once. I don't think any of those drivers consider themselves a number 2. Bottas certainly doesn't otherwise he would be very pleased with this season so far. Mercedes clearly aren't viewing him as a number 2 long long term either.

They are looking to Ocon because they (the board of directors) are thinking about what happens post-Hamilton. As everyone here has said, Hamilton is Merc's golden goose, but he is at the tail-end of his career now. They've got the perfect opportunity to benchmark the next goose against the current one, Bottas doesn't seem to be capable of producing the goods so it makes sense to consider Ocon.

So why is it not a clear cut decision? There's a chance Ocon doesn't perform, and ends up costing the team a constructors title, just look at Gasly right now.

Everyone is looking at Bottas's seat as a key, but I think Hulkenberg's could be even more important. If Renault drop Hulkenberg that could open the door for Ocon to Renault which was originally the plan. Mercedes can then review Ocon against Ricciardo and retain Bottas. Problem solved.

well none of them would call themselves a No2, and if they're made to feel like the No2, like Massa, or Bottas last year, their performance falls off massively. But from the team's point of view there mostly is a No1/No2 and Valtteri is that person isn't he? Niki used to call Lewis 'Lewis' and Valtteri 'Bottas' !

But a No2 is really valuable to a team, I mean look at Red Bull, because mostly F1 drivers get into F1 by winning everything and they don't have the temperament to get beaten weekend after weekend. Rosberg was a No2 on pace and he couldn't take it and cheated. Jenson was the greatest No2 ever, being a nice, generous person and instinctively fair. Valtteri is like Jenson and if he'd been in the Brawn in 2009 he'd have been a wdc too.

But yes Ocon would be a risk, as in he might take Lewis out at T1 and I agree Renault is the place for him. He must be at least a bit faster than Valtteri in the sim or he wouldn't even be on their radar would he, but would he be such a good fit in the team? I don't think so and I don't see him as a Lewis replacement, personally. Charles might be, let's see, otherwise there is only Max, after Lewis.

Yeah, they are not going to pair Lewis and Max, that would be Prost vs Senna part 2 (or maybe they suprise us and they are suprisingly friendly). From a fan perspective however it would be awesome.

I think you are unfair regarding Button, he beat a prime Lewis over a whole year, something only Rosberg (but due to reliability) did. If Button had the luck of him being in the seat instead of Bottas at that age he maybe would have had 1 or even 2 additional WDC's.

[roon]

The high downforce redbull cars make drivers look good.

Yeah, compared to those dog mercedes cars that don't flatter anyone.

[i70q7m7ghw]

well none of them would call themselves a No2, and if they're made to feel like the No2, like Massa, or Bottas last year, their performance falls off massively. But from the team's point of view there mostly is a No1/No2 and Valtteri is that person isn't he? Niki used to call Lewis 'Lewis' and Valtteri 'Bottas' !

But a No2 is really valuable to a team, I mean look at Red Bull, because mostly F1 drivers get into F1 by winning everything and they don't have the temperament to get beaten weekend after weekend. Rosberg was a No2 on pace and he couldn't take it and cheated. Jenson was the greatest No2 ever, being a nice, generous person and instinctively fair. Valtteri is like Jenson and if he'd been in the Brawn in 2009 he'd have been a wdc too.

But yes Ocon would be a risk, as in he might take Lewis out at T1 and I agree Renault is the place for him. He must be at least a bit faster than Valtteri in the sim or he wouldn't even be on their radar would he, but would he be such a good fit in the team? I don't think so and I don't see him as a Lewis replacement, personally. Charles might be, let's see, otherwise there is only Max, after Lewis.

I'm sorry but that's just borderline fanatic hypberbole. Rosberg performed well at the start of 2016 and then made the most of Hamilton's bad luck (reliability) to stroke the WDC home. Button finished 2nd the 2011 while Hamilton finished 5th, 43 points behind. Both drivers were very much number 1 those years.

[izzy]

I'm sorry but that's just borderline fanatic hypberbole. Rosberg performed well at the start of 2016 and then made the most of Hamilton's bad luck (reliability) to stroke the WDC home. Button finished 2nd the 2011 while Hamilton finished 5th, 43 points behind. Both drivers were very much number 1 those years.

don't get personal it doesn't help your case, stick to the evidence then we can chat about F1. Rosberg had half his wins and 40 points from Lewis' car problems and won by 5 points. Jenson was the luckiest guy in the history of F1, like in Canada he took out BOTH his rivals, including Lewis, and won, in Spa Lewis was taken out, in Brazil he was taken out of the lead, etc etc. They were both No2 drivers on pace who were good enough to be there and get lucky ONE year. Rosberg was a cheat and despicable, Jenson was a great guy and a great driver and a perfect teammate, like Valtteri, and that's how Lewis gets on with both of them. Mercedes learned how much difference that makes, that's what they risk if they take Esteban.

[Pyrone89]

The high downforce redbull cars make drivers look good.

Yeah, compared to those dog mercedes cars that don't flatter anyone.

Check his avatar and then decide wether to spent time on responding to their posts is a rule of thumb I use. Saves you time.

[roon]

well none of them would call themselves a No2, and if they're made to feel like the No2, like Massa, or Bottas last year, their performance falls off massively. But from the team's point of view there mostly is a No1/No2 and Valtteri is that person isn't he? Niki used to call Lewis 'Lewis' and Valtteri 'Bottas' !

But a No2 is really valuable to a team, I mean look at Red Bull, because mostly F1 drivers get into F1 by winning everything and they don't have the temperament to get beaten weekend after weekend. Rosberg was a No2 on pace and he couldn't take it and cheated. Jenson was the greatest No2 ever, being a nice, generous person and instinctively fair. Valtteri is like Jenson and if he'd been in the Brawn in 2009 he'd have been a wdc too.

But yes Ocon would be a risk, as in he might take Lewis out at T1 and I agree Renault is the place for him. He must be at least a bit faster than Valtteri in the sim or he wouldn't even be on their radar would he, but would he be such a good fit in the team? I don't think so and I don't see him as a Lewis replacement, personally. Charles might be, let's see, otherwise there is only Max, after Lewis.

I'm sorry but that's just borderline fanatic hypberbole. Rosberg performed well at the start of 2016 and then made the most of Hamilton's bad luck (reliability) to stroke the WDC home. Button finished 2nd the 2011 while Hamilton finished 5th, 43 points behind. Both drivers were very much number 1 those years.

Hamilton gained four WDC for the same reason Rosberg gained one. Bottas has GP victories for the same reason. They all have pole positions and fastest laps for that same reason. The Mercedes F1 program.

Had Alonso, Button, Vettel, Ricciardo, Raikkonen, Verstappen, or LeClerc, been driving alongside Hamilton 2014-2019, the delusional lore of Hamilton of recent years would likely not have arisen.

Vettel won 2010-2013 because he stepped out of a Toro Rosso and into a Red Bull. Had someone other than Webber been alongside Vettel, would Vettel still have four WDC?

Mercedes were best prepared when the 2014 rules changes arrived. This in turn benefitted the Mercedes drivers.