2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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organic
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
11 May 2023, 19:11
With the latest announcement of a stiffer tire construction to debut at the British GP, I wonder how this will impact Ferrari.
Is it said anywhere that it will be stiffer?

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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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organic wrote:
11 May 2023, 19:44
AR3-GP wrote:
11 May 2023, 19:11
With the latest announcement of a stiffer tire construction to debut at the British GP, I wonder how this will impact Ferrari.
Is it said anywhere that it will be stiffer?
The announcement says :
As such, RacingNews365 understands that Pirelli are set to introduce reinforced tyres capable of dealing with the higher than expected loads at Silverstone and for the remainder of the 2023 season.
A lion must kill its prey.

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organic
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
11 May 2023, 19:48
organic wrote:
11 May 2023, 19:44
AR3-GP wrote:
11 May 2023, 19:11
With the latest announcement of a stiffer tire construction to debut at the British GP, I wonder how this will impact Ferrari.
Is it said anywhere that it will be stiffer?
The announcement says :
As such, RacingNews365 understands that Pirelli are set to introduce reinforced tyres capable of dealing with the higher than expected loads at Silverstone and for the remainder of the 2023 season.
A reinforced construction doesn't necessarily mean it will be a stiffer tyre.. I would just say it is new spec/reinforced at this point without details from pirelli

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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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organic wrote:
11 May 2023, 19:53
AR3-GP wrote:
11 May 2023, 19:48
organic wrote:
11 May 2023, 19:44


Is it said anywhere that it will be stiffer?
The announcement says :
As such, RacingNews365 understands that Pirelli are set to introduce reinforced tyres capable of dealing with the higher than expected loads at Silverstone and for the remainder of the 2023 season.
A reinforced construction doesn't necessarily mean it will be a stiffer tyre.. I would just say it is new spec/reinforced at this point without details from pirelli
Yes it's perhaps a bit early, but if they are discussing "higher than anticipated loads", and needing to "reinforce" the tire, it usually means the tire will be stiffer.
A lion must kill its prey.

SoulPancake13
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Duchessa confirms a new rear suspension upgrade for Imola and an upgrade for Spain said to be worth 3-4 tenths. The new floor in Miami was expected to bring one tenth, changing the balance forward and reducing the outwash effect. Ferrari have not been able to increase rear load because of the massive understeer.
https://www.corriere.it/sport/formula-1 ... a27b.shtml

Xyz22
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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SoulPancake13 wrote:
12 May 2023, 17:16
Duchessa confirms a new rear suspension upgrade for Imola and an upgrade for Spain said to be worth 3-4 tenths. The new floor in Miami was expected to bring one tenth, changing the balance forward and reducing the outwash effect. Ferrari have not been able to increase rear load because of the massive understeer.
https://www.corriere.it/sport/formula-1 ... a27b.shtml
The understeer was clear since the first day of testing. Terrible as it induces oversteer on exit as well due to the need of increasing the wheel angle to make the corner.

So Ferrari expected much better aero performance and on top of that they have a car which is absolutely unpredictable and has a very limited working window? Yikes.

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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Xyz22 wrote:
12 May 2023, 17:29
SoulPancake13 wrote:
12 May 2023, 17:16
Duchessa confirms a new rear suspension upgrade for Imola and an upgrade for Spain said to be worth 3-4 tenths. The new floor in Miami was expected to bring one tenth, changing the balance forward and reducing the outwash effect. Ferrari have not been able to increase rear load because of the massive understeer.
https://www.corriere.it/sport/formula-1 ... a27b.shtml
The understeer was clear since the first day of testing. Terrible as it induces oversteer on exit as well due to the need of increasing the wheel angle to make the corner.

So Ferrari expected much better aero performance and on top of that they have a car which is absolutely unpredictable and has a very limited working window? Yikes.
Just seems to me like the car is a dud in regards to winning races this season. Run the suspension too stiffly - not enough rear downforce. Run the suspension too soft - bottom out and lose all downforce at the rear. Can't increase rear downforce to stop some of these problems because of a lack of front downforce meanwhile AMR matches RB DRS efficiency and have none of these issues, let alone talk about the RB19. I pray that after Barcelona we see something promising but I am not very optimistic.

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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
11 May 2023, 19:59
organic wrote:
11 May 2023, 19:53
AR3-GP wrote:
11 May 2023, 19:48


The announcement says :

A reinforced construction doesn't necessarily mean it will be a stiffer tyre.. I would just say it is new spec/reinforced at this point without details from pirelli
Yes it's perhaps a bit early, but if they are discussing "higher than anticipated loads", and needing to "reinforce" the tire, it usually means the tire will be stiffer.
I'm interested to see what effect this has. I'm not a rubber/tire expert, but to me as an outsider I don't know how you would increase the strength without increasing the stiffness or making the compounds generally harder.

Again, I'm not an expert in this field but more durable rubber from Pirelli seems like it couldn't hurt a team like Ferrari that currently struggles massively with deg. Could it help? Maybe, but it could also be indifferent. Who knows. Hopefully Pirelli will be more clear on what changes, although I'm probably not banking on transparency.
"You can't argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
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Xyz22
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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What a complete disaster.

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aleks_ader
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Hmm. Interesting. In hindsight Ferrari should push towards standard active suspension. SO their peaky design could work. But that would require big deal of fore thought even before TD39.
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

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aleks_ader
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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And arguably Merc would gain massively in relation to Scuderia anyway.
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Clear reckons Ferrari might have to follow the lead of Red Bull by sacrificing some of its one-lap performance in order to improve its race day showing.

He continued: “Do we have to take a hit in qualifying? That's always a very difficult pill to swallow because races are very often made in qualifying.

“So, we can't afford to take our eye off the qualifying ball. But certainly, we need to fully understand how we can get the race pace.

“We have to take our hat off to the Red Bull and say they are doing something very, very clever. That car works very, very well in race pace.

“We might also conclude that to do so, maybe they are giving up some qualifying pace.

“That's why we can compete with them because they're not optimal in qualifying.”

Asked to identify where Red Bull was leaving Ferrari behind, Clear said: “They are very, very quick along the straights, especially when the DRS is open.

“Again, we have to look at that, see what we can do better to shed that drag, because that’s free lap time.

“The driver doesn't have to use too much skill to get from [one turn to another] as fast as possible. That's clearly an area where they were very quick.”
https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferra ... /10469635/
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Seanspeed
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Ferrari obviously did not design the car to be good in qualifying and lackluster in the race.

The idea that they can just 'give up some one lap pace in exchange for race pace' is not some novel concept they hadn't considered up til now. As if they just never considered the importance of race pace with these modern regulations and ten DRS zones on every track. As if they saw their problems with tire wear in testing and thought, "Yes, this is exactly as expected, we're going to show them all by being super good in qualifying!" Come on now folks.

The car is clearly just not performing as expected and that's the bigger problem they need to worry about. It's a complete tire-eater and their goal since testing should have been to figure out why and address it. Adding more general performance is still good, but clearly they cant expect better results until the car can get through a race distance without falling backwards the entire time, quite obviously. They aren't dumb.

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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
15 May 2023, 17:44
Clear reckons Ferrari might have to follow the lead of Red Bull by sacrificing some of its one-lap performance in order to improve its race day showing.

He continued: “Do we have to take a hit in qualifying? That's always a very difficult pill to swallow because races are very often made in qualifying.

“So, we can't afford to take our eye off the qualifying ball. But certainly, we need to fully understand how we can get the race pace.

“We have to take our hat off to the Red Bull and say they are doing something very, very clever. That car works very, very well in race pace.

“We might also conclude that to do so, maybe they are giving up some qualifying pace.

“That's why we can compete with them because they're not optimal in qualifying.”

Asked to identify where Red Bull was leaving Ferrari behind, Clear said: “They are very, very quick along the straights, especially when the DRS is open.

“Again, we have to look at that, see what we can do better to shed that drag, because that’s free lap time.

“The driver doesn't have to use too much skill to get from [one turn to another] as fast as possible. That's clearly an area where they were very quick.”
https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferra ... /10469635/
The same interview but from
https://www.formulapassion.it/motorspor ... i-red-bull

"Ferrari Senior Performance Engineer Jock Clear tried to explain the difficulties of the SF-23: “ We have understood exactly where the problems are , it is a matter of quantifying them. In a certain sense, we can say that we have noticed some differences “, these are the words reported by Autosport . We may not yet understand how these differences play out. That's the process we're going through at the moment, to figure out what we can do or what we can shift in terms of attention, to get the race pace back on track ."

According to this statement I am not convinced that at moment they exactly know what/where/how have to made changes.
I hope that the results/data of the planned mods in the next 3 races will give them a more specific directions for development.