2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

[API]

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/hond ... dentified/

[Redragon]

Seems same problem as in Mclaren. They ask them to tight as max on mclaren and they promise would be and then have all problems. And in this situation and seen how tight the package is the request from Newey when the engine is almost developed and agree to the changes now are stuck. They should have stand their groumd and say the design is what we came out and let Newey design around of it instead of agreeing to the changes that obviously needs more time and delay their program

[Badger]

"Of course, on the PU side, we are investigating the root cause and planning countermeasures. At the same time, measures are being implemented on the chassis side as well."

It's probably a combination of engine package and chassis.

All correct, but they have publicly admitted that they are behind on the ICE program. I don't understand what's wrong with admitting that Honda made a mistake? I mean, guys, they admitted it too. Reliability issues are one thing, performance issues are another.

The Honda PU thread from 2015 is not the longest thread on this forum for nothing. There are a lot of Honda fans and they are proud of the brand. Reading through the replies in that thread is very interesting, particularly from people "in the know". The timeline to fix issues and catch up ended up taking so much longer than what people were expecting (even within Honda). Some examples from 2015 from Wazari (who has connections inside Honda).

I also highly doubt McLaren will switch engine suppliers nor will it take Honda 4 to 5 years without a podium. McLaren Honda will be on the podium in 2016.

I wouldn't be surprised if Honda holds off on the upgrades for Hungary and waits until after the summer break to introduce the upgraded PU. 70 to 80 HP is a big jump but I think the PU always had the capacity to produce the HP. However at these higher settings, reliability becomes a bigger issue.

I know there are four basic tuning trims right now and they have been running at level 2 for the last two races. They are down about 90 HP in that trim in my opinion. I am told that level 4 trim should be equal or slightly higher than Mercedes' estimated output. Of course this is all hearsay and speculation.

As I mentioned before, the folks at Sakura are very pleased with their latest ICE (2016) and think it lacks nothing in terms of power compared to Merc and Ferrari. They also think there is more power to be had from the ICE before official winter testing dates.

My takeaway in hindsight is that PU development takes longer than you think, especially if you have fundamental issues. I would treat claims that "things will be fixed after race X" with extreme caution, even if they are coming from people within Aston or Honda.

[HPD]

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/hond ... dentified/

Instead of a single longer and flatter shape like before, the 2026 Honda design splits the battery and control electronics into two tiers, which seems to be even more aggressive than what is demanded by the new rules requiring the battery to be contained within the survival cell.

Honda has previously said a desire from Aston Martin to make the overall engine length shorter and more compact prompted revisions to most of the engine's peripheral equipment and how it is integrated into the car, although the design of the engine itself did not have to be changed.

[diffuser]

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/hond ... dentified/

Instead of a single longer and flatter shape like before, the 2026 Honda design splits the battery and control electronics into two tiers, which seems to be even more aggressive than what is demanded by the new rules requiring the battery to be contained within the survival cell.

Honda has previously said a desire from Aston Martin to make the overall engine length shorter and more compact prompted revisions to most of the engine's peripheral equipment and how it is integrated into the car, although the design of the engine itself did not have to be changed.

I’m pretty sure those battery packs are made up of many smaller batteries. I’m not sure it makes any difference whether the batteries are stacked lengthwise or arranged lengthwise and vertically. Obviously, there is a cooling aspect to the batteries. Nor do we know if the placement in the Honda released image is the way it will actually be positioned in the car. We also don’t know if the second-tier battery in that picture is actually a battery and not the control box shown on the side in the other picture.

There is alot we don't know.

[diffuser]

I was looking at the race sim vs vcarb. a lot time was lost in straights which isn't a surprise. but equally they were losing a lot in slow speed sections. Is that gearbox related? or they just havent had a chance to dial in a proper setup due to a lack of solid running

gees, how painful was that to watch ?

[Leon Kennedy]

After Honda's official statements, we had the mathematical certainty, and not as some say, that Newey makes the difference in every way. They stated that since mid-2025 they have been making explicit requests to modify the engine and have caused Honda major headaches.

Remember Rb7 with the Kers setup? It paid off in the second half of the season and was Adrian's request.

This makes us understand that even just one person can turn everything upside down.

[upsidedowntoast]

Putting in my 2c as an outsider without emotional attachment to either Honda or AMR, this project seemed doomed for failure in a way that's everyone's fault.

- Honda chose to leave right when they were becoming successful with Red Bull, and then jumped back in later than everyone else.
- It's still not clear how much personnel from the successful Honda engine was lost to RBPT or the other PU manufacturers in the meantime.
- Then Newey comes, late.
- Then Newey forces a redesign, robbing them of even more time they didn't have.
- For some reason, such as cultural communication issues or too much Newey-worship, no one pushes back on these demands.
- On top of that Aston is trying to make their own brand new gearbox for the first time amongst other things, and it looks like they don't have good integration testing processes for all those things yet.

The same exact problem with McHonda back in the day: Honda was forced to join a year before they were ready, with unreasonable specs. I estimate that between the late recommitment and Newey's demands they were robbed of even more time.

If you want to be a works team, you have to work with your PU manufacturer, not treat them as a subcontractor. I can't imagine the Ferrari or Mercedes chassis people making such demands of their engine people. They should have done what Cadillac is doing -- stick with their known PU until they are sure they can manufacture a gearbox and everything themselves, and make their own engine last. Were they still using a Mercedes engine, Newey would have had no choice but to design around it.

[diffuser]

Putting in my 2c as an outsider without emotional attachment to either Honda or AMR, this project seemed doomed for failure in a way that's everyone's fault.

- Honda chose to leave right when they were becoming successful with Red Bull, and then jumped back in later than everyone else.
- It's still not clear how much personnel from the successful Honda engine was lost to RBPT or the other PU manufacturers in the meantime.
- Then Newey comes, late.
- Then Newey forces a redesign, robbing them of even more time they didn't have.
- For some reason, such as cultural communication issues or too much Newey-worship, no one pushes back on these demands.
- On top of that Aston is trying to make their own brand new gearbox for the first time amongst other things, and it looks like they don't have good integration testing processes for all those things yet.

The same exact problem with McHonda back in the day: Honda was forced to join a year before they were ready, with unreasonable specs. I estimate that between the late recommitment and Newey's demands they were robbed of even more time.

If you want to be a works team, you have to work with your PU manufacturer, not treat them as a subcontractor. I can't imagine the Ferrari or Mercedes chassis people making such demands of their engine people. They should have done what Cadillac is doing -- stick with their known PU until they are sure they can manufacture a gearbox and everything themselves, and make their own engine last. Were they still using a Mercedes engine, Newey would have had no choice but to design around it.

- HONDA lost 0 personnel in Japan to RBR.
- Honda lost all the personnel in the UK, none of them did R&D on the Honda PU.
- We don't know how many of the R&D people that were in the OLD F1 project at Honda, returned to the new project.

- Not sure where this subcontractor BS comes from.
- I'm, 100% sure that the communication between Honda and AMR is the same as it was between Honda and RBR.
- You're making an argument that throws away the biggest advantage for being a works team.

[upsidedowntoast]

Putting in my 2c as an outsider without emotional attachment to either Honda or AMR, this project seemed doomed for failure in a way that's everyone's fault.

- Honda chose to leave right when they were becoming successful with Red Bull, and then jumped back in later than everyone else.
- It's still not clear how much personnel from the successful Honda engine was lost to RBPT or the other PU manufacturers in the meantime.
- Then Newey comes, late.
- Then Newey forces a redesign, robbing them of even more time they didn't have.
- For some reason, such as cultural communication issues or too much Newey-worship, no one pushes back on these demands.
- On top of that Aston is trying to make their own brand new gearbox for the first time amongst other things, and it looks like they don't have good integration testing processes for all those things yet.

The same exact problem with McHonda back in the day: Honda was forced to join a year before they were ready, with unreasonable specs. I estimate that between the late recommitment and Newey's demands they were robbed of even more time.

If you want to be a works team, you have to work with your PU manufacturer, not treat them as a subcontractor. I can't imagine the Ferrari or Mercedes chassis people making such demands of their engine people. They should have done what Cadillac is doing -- stick with their known PU until they are sure they can manufacture a gearbox and everything themselves, and make their own engine last. Were they still using a Mercedes engine, Newey would have had no choice but to design around it.

- HONDA lost 0 personnel in Japan to RBR.
- Honda lost all the personnel in the UK, none of them did R&D on the Honda PU.
- We don't know how many of the R&D people that were in the OLD F1 project at Honda, returned to the new project.

- Not sure where this subcontractor BS comes from.
- I'm, 100% sure that the communication between Honda and AMR is the same as it was between Honda and RBR.
- You're making an argument that throws away the biggest advantage for being a works team.

1. The Japanese personnel were still taken off the project for a couple years, I'm assuming. Sakura just had a support team we don't know where the rest of the F1 R&D people went. Even if they were transferred elsewhere within Honda and brought back they still lost many years. This is Honda's fault for jumping out and in.

2. The UK personnel would have still been useful for integration and bridging cultural gaps, which is a major struggle right now. This is also related to #1.

3. "Subcontractor" because they were already short on time and still forced through a redesign. Maybe this is Honda's fault for not pushing back more and saying "no, this is the engine you're going to get, we don't have time left to give you everything you want". But this is also on AMR and Newey's shoulders.

4. The communication between AMR and Honda probably *isn't* the same as it was between RB and Honda, else we wouldn't be in this mess. And if it was, then it's still a problem that Honda just didn't have enough time on their side and the rest of AMR-Honda wasn't doing the right integration testing. Which Lawrence and upper management should have seen coming. It's not like Honda went "Oh my god, it's Alonso, better make a terrible engine on purpose!"

5. I'm not saying to throw away the advantage of being a works team altogether. I'm saying make sure you have the basics down first. IIRC Cadillac wants to *eventually* be a works team, by 2029? but they're choosing to build up the rest of their structure first. AMR could have started being their own works team by 2027 or later, and stayed with a bought PU for one more year.

[AR3-GP]

I do not subscribe to the view that Honda should be blamed for everything, nor do I believe you have demonstrated that the changes Honda was asked to implement were sufficiently complex to have caused their reliability issues.
Furthermore, I do not favor the decisions made by the AM F1 team, which resulted in a seventh-place finish in 2025, over the changes proposed by one of Formula 1’s leading designers.

I'm not saying that it's wrong to make changes. I'm saying that if you make late changes, you should accept the difficulties that come with that.

This year should be managed like 2018. The narrative then was that Honda was allowed to break things because they were aggressively pursuing the best PU possible. If things break, it's okay.

Instead its being managed like 2015 where the team allows everyone to pile on Honda. Honda issued a press release out of the blue to defend themselves.

[hsg]

Putting in my 2c as an outsider without emotional attachment to either Honda or AMR, this project seemed doomed for failure in a way that's everyone's fault.

- Honda chose to leave right when they were becoming successful with Red Bull, and then jumped back in later than everyone else.
- It's still not clear how much personnel from the successful Honda engine was lost to RBPT or the other PU manufacturers in the meantime.
- Then Newey comes, late.
- Then Newey forces a redesign, robbing them of even more time they didn't have.
- For some reason, such as cultural communication issues or too much Newey-worship, no one pushes back on these demands.
- On top of that Aston is trying to make their own brand new gearbox for the first time amongst other things, and it looks like they don't have good integration testing processes for all those things yet.

The same exact problem with McHonda back in the day: Honda was forced to join a year before they were ready, with unreasonable specs. I estimate that between the late recommitment and Newey's demands they were robbed of even more time.

If you want to be a works team, you have to work with your PU manufacturer, not treat them as a subcontractor. I can't imagine the Ferrari or Mercedes chassis people making such demands of their engine people. They should have done what Cadillac is doing -- stick with their known PU until they are sure they can manufacture a gearbox and everything themselves, and make their own engine last. Were they still using a Mercedes engine, Newey would have had no choice but to design around it.

- HONDA lost 0 personnel in Japan to RBR.
- Honda lost all the personnel in the UK, none of them did R&D on the Honda PU.
- We don't know how many of the R&D people that were in the OLD F1 project at Honda, returned to the new project.

- Not sure where this subcontractor BS comes from.
- I'm, 100% sure that the communication between Honda and AMR is the same as it was between Honda and RBR.
- You're making an argument that throws away the biggest advantage for being a works team.

Can Honda make changes at engine when ever want or FIA must allow first? When will fia allow changes?

[upsidedowntoast]

Putting in my 2c as an outsider without emotional attachment to either Honda or AMR, this project seemed doomed for failure in a way that's everyone's fault.

- Honda chose to leave right when they were becoming successful with Red Bull, and then jumped back in later than everyone else.
- It's still not clear how much personnel from the successful Honda engine was lost to RBPT or the other PU manufacturers in the meantime.
- Then Newey comes, late.
- Then Newey forces a redesign, robbing them of even more time they didn't have.
- For some reason, such as cultural communication issues or too much Newey-worship, no one pushes back on these demands.
- On top of that Aston is trying to make their own brand new gearbox for the first time amongst other things, and it looks like they don't have good integration testing processes for all those things yet.

The same exact problem with McHonda back in the day: Honda was forced to join a year before they were ready, with unreasonable specs. I estimate that between the late recommitment and Newey's demands they were robbed of even more time.

If you want to be a works team, you have to work with your PU manufacturer, not treat them as a subcontractor. I can't imagine the Ferrari or Mercedes chassis people making such demands of their engine people. They should have done what Cadillac is doing -- stick with their known PU until they are sure they can manufacture a gearbox and everything themselves, and make their own engine last. Were they still using a Mercedes engine, Newey would have had no choice but to design around it.

- HONDA lost 0 personnel in Japan to RBR.
- Honda lost all the personnel in the UK, none of them did R&D on the Honda PU.
- We don't know how many of the R&D people that were in the OLD F1 project at Honda, returned to the new project.

- Not sure where this subcontractor BS comes from.
- I'm, 100% sure that the communication between Honda and AMR is the same as it was between Honda and RBR.
- You're making an argument that throws away the biggest advantage for being a works team.

Can Honda make changes at engine when ever want or FIA must allow first? When will fia allow changes?

There are reviews for being 2-4% being after races 6, 12, and 18. I think there's a separate thing where they might raise the budget cap if a team is so far behind they need to catch up.

[hsg]

- HONDA lost 0 personnel in Japan to RBR.
- Honda lost all the personnel in the UK, none of them did R&D on the Honda PU.
- We don't know how many of the R&D people that were in the OLD F1 project at Honda, returned to the new project.

- Not sure where this subcontractor BS comes from.
- I'm, 100% sure that the communication between Honda and AMR is the same as it was between Honda and RBR.
- You're making an argument that throws away the biggest advantage for being a works team.

Can Honda make changes at engine when ever want or FIA must allow first? When will fia allow changes?

There are reviews for being 2-4% being after races 6, 12, and 18. I think there's a separate thing where they might raise the budget cap if a team is so far behind they need to catch up.

So they will use this engine/battery up to race 6? But they will not finish any race before they fix these problems.

[gearboxtrouble]

If the problem is really some weird second order harmonic vibration created though the merging of the engine, gearbox and chassis then its actually worse for the team than a simple engine problem. This goes back to the delays in the car, engine and gearbox leading to a poor integration job by the team and Honda. This is something that would and should have been discovered and fixed in 2025, not on track in Barcelona. Finding the root cause and addressing it could take a while and even worse, makes the true potential of the engine unknowable. The ADUO is triggered by an ICE deficit but if the ICE is able to run to potential on a workbench and the problem is on the battery side when integrated into the car then they might not get any additional development opportunities during the season.