Hamilton to leave for Mercedes 2013

[Dragonfly]

Please let the facts speak for themselves. What has bias got to with this ? Facts are facts, they don't change. Yes I am passionate, but I don't let my feelings cloud my judgement.

qualifying : 11-2 points: 142-101 wins: 3-2

And given the distance in points from Button to Alonso and Hamilton to Alonso... If this is not the time to grant Lewis no 1 status, then when is ? It's simple logic. If this was happening at Ferrari the outburst from Alonso would be mind blowing - and rightfully so.

For a fact, I actually share your opinion that the policy of No 1 and supporting driver is more effective in the fight for the WDC title. But I think it should be applied either when there's big difference in performance, or the team leaders have concluded that a given driver is able to deliver constant results with great probability. When those factors are not present or unclear, better leave the rivalry until there is no mathematical chance for one of them to win.
Hamilton is not the complete top driver his fans would like to portray him. Too many ups and downs. Too much character instability. Yes, very gifted as driving abilities, but this alone is not enough. That's my opinion and it is not necessarily right, but that's how I see it.
I am not sure how he would fare in another team. Almost all of his conscious life has passed in tight connection with McLaren. And I honestly think that now he has adopted some role and is performing a theater play. Contrary to a number of opinions I think he is not that famous outside UK to be a contribution to the Mercedes brand name.

[SiLo]

Has anyone worked out how many points Mclaren has potentially lost Hamilton with their screw ups in the pit lane? I'd like to get an idea of how much better off he would be if they had been performing like this from the beginning of the season.

[simieski]

Has anyone worked out how many points Mclaren has potentially lost Hamilton with their screw ups in the pit lane? I'd like to get an idea of how much better off he would be if they had been performing like this from the beginning of the season.

Indeed they have, thanks to Mnmracer: viewtopic.php?p=370080#p370080

[CMSMJ1]

[...] When Lewis arrived on the scene he was outstanding - do you agree? The 2007 season was quality..and 2008 was pretty much something we have not seen before - someone to take the WDC in their second season. I cannot remember when someone last did that.. So, do you agree he was excellent at that time? 10/10 A+ whatever.

So...in 2009..he did not react well to having a poor car at the start of the season and with JB being the man the papers were now talking about (only coverage Lewis got was to see how crap he was compared to his brilliant first 2 years)

The performance from Lewis has not been as good as it was - that is obvious. Everyone got their arse handed to them by Seb Vettel in 2010/2011 - a few flashes of race winning pace by other drivers could not take away the fact that Seb was now the "New Lewis" JB coming to McLaren and either not getting thrashed, or beating Lewis over the seasons - depends on your view.

I am not saying Lewis is now crap. I am saying he is not as good as he was - that happens to drivers - get over it.

A new start, fresh challenge - he might apply himself to it and come back with the desire that he used to have.

He's having a very good season so far. Instead of blaming Hamilton, I would say it is McLaren that is getting worse and worse from 2008. How many points have they lost Hamilton this year? How exactly has Hamilton been erratic? You're just a hater.

Don't make me laugh. He has been nowhere near as good - blame McLaren all you like - that is fair, but his level has dropped. How is it that everyone thought he would thrash JB. Did you rate JB as a high a level as Lewis? Did JB step it up, or has Lewis come down to JB's level?

Both still awesome and skilled - but neither as consistent as Alonso or as fast as Seb.

Less of the fanboy crap please - calling someone a hater about a sport that we are both interested in..I get the feeling that I have been watching F1 long enough to judge and might have seen my heroes retire or die...I think they are all excellent drivers, worthy of respect and that most of the field, in Lewis' shoes, would have also grabbed a race win or two during 5 years at one of the Grandee teams


As I said before - a change is as good as a rest - I hope he leaves.

[beelsebob]

I am not saying Lewis is now crap. I am saying he is not as good as he was - that happens to drivers - get over it.

And what he's saying is that Lewis has not got worse, instead, he had a (comparatively) --- car for a while, and only just now has a car capable of winning consistently. Now that he has a car capable of winning consistently again, what's he doing... Oh right, winning consistently.

[example]

How is he looking ordinary next to Vettel is beyond me. As a matter of fact it's Vettel who looks ordinary this season.
Lewis and Alonso are well on par this season, one has had more luck on his side than other, but hopefully it'll balance itself until the end of season.

[beelsebob]

How is he looking ordinary next to Vettel is beyond me. As a matter of fact it's Vettel who looks ordinary this season.
Lewis and Alonso are well on par this season, one has had more luck on his side than other, but hopefully it'll balance itself until the end of season.

Agreed, He's leading his team mate by 39%, compared to Vettel leading his by only 6%, and I'd go as far as to say he has a better team mate too. Alonso is looking truly awesome to behold this year, but Hamilton is far from looking ordinary. Hence why it's now looking like the championship will be a straight fight between the two now.

[CMSMJ1]

Appreciate what you are saying guys - but it is his comparison to his team mates that has changed the most IMO.

Lewis is good, no two ways about it - but not as good as he was. I don't blame the car for anything as it is what it is - Apparently the Ferrari was the dog of the year and that is not hindering Alonso who is punching well above the weight of that car.

[beelsebob]

Appreciate what you are saying guys - but it is his comparison to his team mates that has changed the most IMO.

Lewis is good, no two ways about it - but not as good as he was. I don't blame the car for anything as it is what it is - Apparently the Ferrari was the dog of the year and that is not hindering Alonso who is punching well above the weight of that car.

1) We can now see that the Ferrari is in fact not a dog, in fact, it's arguably the second best car on the grid.
2) Lewis has lost a good 40-50 points this year due solely to pit lane --- ups.
3) Alonso has got really lucky on a couple of occasions.

There's no doubt that Alonso is driving extremely well this season, but in reality, Lewis should be level on points with him were it not for his team --- up, and is driving equally well. What we really should be seeing here is another 2007/2008 – those two just disappearing with everything.

[CMSMJ1]

You cannot argue with fanatics.

This thread about Lewis leaving for Mercedes.

So, all else being equal - would he have got more points there this year?

Blaming McLaren is not the point is it?

Embarassing myself..lol - go and tidy your room and think about what you have done

[the user]

Look matey - I am not into one upmanship - it is only racing..lol

However - When Lewis arrived on the scene he was outstanding - do you agree? The 2007 season was quality..and 2008 was pretty much something we have not seen before - someone to take the WDC in their second season. I cannot remember when someone last did that.. So, do you agree he was excellent at that time? 10/10 A+ whatever.

So...in 2009..he did not react well to having a poor car at the start of the season and with JB being the man the papers were now talking about (only coverage Lewis got was to see how crap he was compared to his brilliant first 2 years)

I did not watch the 2007 season, but during the '08 season, IMHO, all title contenders were inconsistent and because of that it was so close all the way to the end. Plus, Hamilton was lucky because technical DNFs cost Massa more points than Hamilton. The last time someone won the WDC in their second year was Jacques Villeneuve in '97, so... We have seen it before ;] I believe that Hamilton was always good and he hasn't lost anything (I think it's exactly the opposite - he's definitely matured as a driver), it's just that he, IMHO, lacks (or lacked) just that bit of something in his head.. It just seems that it was/is rather easy to get to his head and unsettle him which impairs his judgement on the track (remember him and Massa last year). I write was/is because this year he hasn't really done anything stupid on the track (now he does stupid things off the track ), so maybe now he's mentally tougher. We'll see what happens if it all goes to the wire this year. Anyway, everything I wrote is just my opinion and I don't state anything as a fact ;]

[jdlive]

He hasn't done anything of the likes of Alonso or Vettel to warrant clear number 1 status, it's as simple as that.

You don't give number 1 status based on theoretical talent on paper but based on real world results.

If it were the case, even Mclaren would do it eventually.

[CMSMJ1]

@ the user.

Aye, how could you forget JV...and look where he ended up!

Lewis to Mercedes is a good call. He'll win some races for sure and be good to see whether Nico is as good as the hype too.

[beelsebob]

He hasn't done anything of the likes of Alonso or Vettel to warrant clear number 1 status, it's as simple as that.

You don't give number 1 status based on theoretical talent on paper but based on real world results.

If it were the case, even Mclaren would do it eventually.

Heh, so Vettel warranted number 1 status in 2010 when he'd done nothing at all, but Hamilton doesn't after becoming world champion, beating his team mate in all but one seasons, and being significantly ahead of his team mate in this one?

[jdlive]

Vettel never got "Nr1 status" before his dominance. He doesn't even really have it now, at least not in the way Alonso has.

Button also has a WDC and like someone counted out, didn't score less points for Mclaren as Hamilton did until now. So, apart from the very subjective theoretical talent on paper (which also more and more people are starting to doubt), they'd have no objective reason for doing so.