2023 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 03 - 05

[101FlyingDutchman]

sure, but I can't really see how it isn't in accordance with the new rules, valid on from this weekend:

"As per article 33.4 of the Formula 1 Sporting Regulations, drivers are not allowed to go unnecessarily slow, that includes stopping a car in the fast lane of the pit lane. During Shootout and Qualifying, drivers may create a gap between the pit exit lights and the SC2 line. Any driver who wishes to do so must drive as far to the left as possible to allow other drivers to pass them on the right side of the pit exit road.

So I guess F1 didn't mean them to do it on the grass, but it clearly is allowed to pass slow drivers on that stretch. If there's anyone to penalize, it's those going slow in the middle of the road, instead of the very left.

And now watch it go quiet in here as they realise that actually the rules have changed. I still don’t like the closing speed in a narrow pit exit area. Every rule has unintended consequences and seemingly a combo of how far a car is to the left and the speed of the car leaving the pit lane behind, makes for a not brilliant scenario

And the only way to overtake is at speed on a tight lane with white flags? No, I don't agree. He could of approached at a reasonable speed and passed people, his speed was stupid. Even with drivers to on the left white line there isn't enough room and driving at that speed on grass is daft.

Like I said, unintended consequences. You then have to mandate a limited speed at pit exit until a certain point and then only during qualifying sessions. The rules get complicated. Eg: how far left is deemed safe? How fast is too fast? Subjectivity galore.

[DDopey]

I think everyone understands that Max was not impeding anyone. It was just dangerous to speed up, knowing you would come accross several cars in crawling speed. If he wanted track position, why didnt the team released him earlier? Absolutely no point in pulling moves like that in the pitlane. A crash will occur in the next races if FIA do not properly address this "rule".

The issue is that there are some that want to get Max penalised while there is no ground for that. You can think of this action whatever you want, but it is not an offence.

[Mogster]

The pit exit is barely wide enough for two cars to pass safely. I’m not sure what the stewards were thinking.

[mwillems]

I think everyone understands that Max was not impeding anyone. It was just dangerous to speed up, knowing you would come accross several cars in crawling speed. If he wanted track position, why didnt the team released him earlier? Absolutely no point in pulling moves like that in the pitlane. A crash will occur in the next races if FIA do not properly address this "rule".

The issue is that there are some that want to get Max penalised while there is no ground for that. You can think of this action whatever you want, but it is not an offence.

No I think Max sees an opportunity to help himself and ignore a danger to others because there's a benefit to him, and I think it's something we've seen throughout his career. That speed down the narrow pitlane with slow cars was never safe, he knew about it, his team knew about it, and he went and got an advantage through dangerous driving.

[chrisc90]

How fast should you not be allowed to go in the pit exit then, given it is a actual piece of RACE TRACK and not the pitlane which has a mandatory speed?)

[mwillems]

The pit exit is part of the race, there is no specific rule for all of the race incidents, they can penalise a driver if he creates a danger to others and the rules are designed for that. Going at pace past drivers when you know there is pit lane exit traffic in a narrow pitlane exit is dangerous. The flag itself is not something that induces a penalty, but the waving of the flags by the stewards to indicate traffic ahead in a narrow pitlane is enough to warrant a level of common sense that he did not apply. He took no care whatsoever in his exit knowing there was a reason to.

[DDopey]

I think everyone understands that Max was not impeding anyone. It was just dangerous to speed up, knowing you would come accross several cars in crawling speed. If he wanted track position, why didnt the team released him earlier? Absolutely no point in pulling moves like that in the pitlane. A crash will occur in the next races if FIA do not properly address this "rule".

The issue is that there are some that want to get Max penalised while there is no ground for that. You can think of this action whatever you want, but it is not an offence.

No I think Max sees an opportunity to help himself and ignore a danger to others because there's a benefit to him, and I think it's something we've seen throughout his career.

This statement says a something about how you are looking at this.

That speed down the narrow pitlane with slow cars was never safe, he knew about it, his team knew about it, and he went and got an advantage through dangerous driving.

I think I would leave that judgement to Max. He knows how to drive an F1 car and how much grip he has. If he feels he has enough grip to go halfway across the grass and that speed, I will trust his judgement more than yours. And besides that, I'v seen them go over the grass much faster than that.

[chrisc90]

So who is creating the most danger? Those who are driving too slowly or those who are using the pit exit as part of the race? Given it was specifically said in the race directors instructions befre the weekend.

Some facts. Pit lane speed. 50mph.
Max's speed at the pit exit. 85mph when he started to accelerate.

Is 35mph over the pit lane speed limit on a part of the race track dangerous?

Is all cars that are going 85mph in pit exit whilst a white flag there also dangerous, not using common sense and deserving of a penalty?

[mwillems]

The issue is that there are some that want to get Max penalised while there is no ground for that. You can think of this action whatever you want, but it is not an offence.

No I think Max sees an opportunity to help himself and ignore a danger to others because there's a benefit to him, and I think it's something we've seen throughout his career.

This statement says a something about how you are looking at this.

That speed down the narrow pitlane with slow cars was never safe, he knew about it, his team knew about it, and he went and got an advantage through dangerous driving.

I think I would leave that judgement to Max. He knows how to drive an F1 car and how much grip he has. If he feels he has enough grip to go halfway across the grass and that speed, I will trust his judgement more than yours. And besides that, I'v seen them go over the grass much faster than that.

Trust what you like. I don't trust Max as far as safety goes due to his previous actions with track limits and braking zones, and with his remarks about the Halo and drivers lives being fair game. It's hard to ignore his perspective towards fellow racers.

But this incident stands alone from that, it was knowingly dangerous, which is punishable.

[mwillems]

So who is creating the most danger? Those who are driving too slowly or those who are using the pit exit as part of the race? Given it was specifically said in the race directors instructions befre the weekend.

Some facts. Pit lane speed. 50mph.
Max's speed at the pit exit. 85mph when he started to accelerate.

Is 35mph over the pit lane speed limit on a part of the race track dangerous?

Is all cars that are going 85mph in pit exit whilst a white flag there also dangerous, not using common sense and deserving of a penalty?

They are separate incidents that you are conflating. White flags on an open track are very different to white flags in an enclosed space. If the argument is that you don't slow down and assume there is space, then it's not one I agree with.

Tell me, what if Perez had driven slowly around those in front, where would Max go?

Perez wouldn't be breaking the rules? But there'd be a hell of an incident.

[Cs98]

The pit exit is part of the race, there is no specific rule for all of the race incidents, they can penalise a driver if he creates a danger to others and the rules are designed for that. Going at pace past drivers when you know there is pit lane exit traffic in a narrow pitlane exit is dangerous. The flag itself is not something that induces a penalty, but the waving of the flags by the stewards to indicate traffic ahead in a narrow pitlane is enough to warrant a level of common sense that he did not apply. He took no care whatsoever in his exit knowing there was a reason to.

The problem with your reasoning is that the drivers going slowly were disobeying the race directors orders, and thus they were responsible for creating a dangerous situation when other cars passed (as they are entitled to do). The pit exit is part of the race track, there is no speed limit, and there is no rule against putting a wheel on the grass. Remember Vettel in China 2016. These mental gymnastics are fun though.

[mwillems]

The pit exit is part of the race, there is no specific rule for all of the race incidents, they can penalise a driver if he creates a danger to others and the rules are designed for that. Going at pace past drivers when you know there is pit lane exit traffic in a narrow pitlane exit is dangerous. The flag itself is not something that induces a penalty, but the waving of the flags by the stewards to indicate traffic ahead in a narrow pitlane is enough to warrant a level of common sense that he did not apply. He took no care whatsoever in his exit knowing there was a reason to.

The problem with your reasoning is that the drivers going slowly were disobeying the race directors orders, and thus they were responsible for creating a dangerous situation when other cars passed (as they are entitled to do). The pit exit is part of the race track, there is no speed limit, and there is no rule against putting a wheel on the grass. Remember Vettel in China 2016. These mental gymnastics are fun though.

Again, if Perez had followed instruction to overtake and gone off track like Max did, there would be a massive incident.

[DDopey]

No I think Max sees an opportunity to help himself and ignore a danger to others because there's a benefit to him, and I think it's something we've seen throughout his career.

This statement says a something about how you are looking at this.

That speed down the narrow pitlane with slow cars was never safe, he knew about it, his team knew about it, and he went and got an advantage through dangerous driving.

I think I would leave that judgement to Max. He knows how to drive an F1 car and how much grip he has. If he feels he has enough grip to go halfway across the grass and that speed, I will trust his judgement more than yours. And besides that, I'v seen them go over the grass much faster than that.

Trust what you like. I don't trust Max as far as safety goes due to his previous actions with track limits and braking zones, and with his remarks about the Halo and drivers lives being fair game. It's hard to ignore his perspective towards fellow racers.

But this incident stands alone from that, it was knowingly dangerous, which is punishable.

Wel I just look at the Max his onboard and I would beg to differ, he actually slowed down on passing. The fact you trust yourself more in how to drive an F1 car than Max, is a bit strange though.
Involving statements which were many years ago, and actions that many if not all the drivers do and have done, well, I leave it at this.

[avantman]

I think everyone understands that Max was not impeding anyone. It was just dangerous to speed up, knowing you would come accross several cars in crawling speed. If he wanted track position, why didnt the team released him earlier? Absolutely no point in pulling moves like that in the pitlane. A crash will occur in the next races if FIA do not properly address this "rule".

This is some dangerous driving man!

[Cs98]

The pit exit is part of the race, there is no specific rule for all of the race incidents, they can penalise a driver if he creates a danger to others and the rules are designed for that. Going at pace past drivers when you know there is pit lane exit traffic in a narrow pitlane exit is dangerous. The flag itself is not something that induces a penalty, but the waving of the flags by the stewards to indicate traffic ahead in a narrow pitlane is enough to warrant a level of common sense that he did not apply. He took no care whatsoever in his exit knowing there was a reason to.

The problem with your reasoning is that the drivers going slowly were disobeying the race directors orders, and thus they were responsible for creating a dangerous situation when other cars passed (as they are entitled to do). The pit exit is part of the race track, there is no speed limit, and there is no rule against putting a wheel on the grass. Remember Vettel in China 2016. These mental gymnastics are fun though.

Again, if Perez had followed instruction to overtake and gone off track like Max did, there would be a massive incident.

What are you talking about? If you pull out to overtake you obviously have to look in the mirror to see no one is overtaking you on the outside. Have you ever changed lanes in a car? Same principle. You are just jumping all over the place trying to find something to complain about. Unfortunately for you there is no rules precedent for your point of view, in fact the rules precedent would place the blame squarely at the feet of the drivers disobeying race direction by going slow in the middle of the track. RD literally came up with a new rule EXACTLY for this, yet you still find a way to complain. Fascinating.