2025 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 05 - 07

[Mogster]

Verstappen has been fortunate McLaren had two strong drivers pushing each other and taking points of each other. If McLaren had a definite #2 and had favoured one driver all season then the WDC would have been over a good few races ago. The narrow field spread this season also helped other drivers take points of the McLaren drivers. A few tenths in qualifying have been the difference between P2 and P6.

I do think there’s a realisation that if F1 is going maintain this field spread (It’ll probably be wider next year) then you need 2 strong drivers to take the WCC.

[Seanspeed]

This is tame and lame compared to previous final race threads. I'm surprised we're only at 14 pages. Granted, the site traffic is only a shadow of what it used to be.

What is there to be excited about? :/

All we could hope was that Norris faced some terrible misfortune or bad mistake for there to be any actual hope for Verstappen or Piastri. And Norris had a dominant car all year, yet will only beat another driver in another car by two points, while being extremely mediocre himself overall given his advantages. Not to mention there's plenty of valid suspicion that Mclaren really did want Norris to win it over Piastri this year.

It's hardly a shock people aren't barging in with excitement. Legitimately the most underwhelming WDC winner in a very long time.

[Gillian]

Imagine AM being dominant next year and Stroll taking the WDC.

[aMessageToCharlie]

Can one argue that Max gave the championship away? Did Lando make less mistakes than Max? It's worth the analysis.

You can argue that Red Bull needs a better performing second driver. Yuki did not take a single point of McLaren this year (on the other hand, he also did not take a single point of Max)

That's Red Bull's MO. They back a single driver and the other guy is left to rot. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't.

Ironically, a Perez this year would have helped Max win the title where Yuki had no chance. Live by the sword, die by it...

Truth is they "rot" by themselves next to a superior team mate, much like HAM at Ferrari or STR at Aston.

[stephen]

The FIA has once again spoiled what could have been a great championship race.

[Mosin123]

This is tame and lame compared to previous final race threads. I'm surprised we're only at 14 pages. Granted, the site traffic is only a shadow of what it used to be.

What is there to be excited about? :/

All we could hope was that Norris faced some terrible misfortune or bad mistake for there to be any actual hope for Verstappen or Piastri. And Norris had a dominant car all year, yet will only beat another driver in another car by two points, while being extremely mediocre himself overall given his advantages. Not to mention there's plenty of valid suspicion that Mclaren really did want Norris to win it over Piastri this year.

It's hardly a shock people aren't barging in with excitement. Legitimately the most underwhelming WDC winner in a very long time.

I thought his return to form to catch and pass OP was more than well deserving........

[Seanspeed]

This is tame and lame compared to previous final race threads. I'm surprised we're only at 14 pages. Granted, the site traffic is only a shadow of what it used to be.

What is there to be excited about? :/

All we could hope was that Norris faced some terrible misfortune or bad mistake for there to be any actual hope for Verstappen or Piastri. And Norris had a dominant car all year, yet will only beat another driver in another car by two points, while being extremely mediocre himself overall given his advantages. Not to mention there's plenty of valid suspicion that Mclaren really did want Norris to win it over Piastri this year.

It's hardly a shock people aren't barging in with excitement. Legitimately the most underwhelming WDC winner in a very long time.

I thought his return to form to catch and pass OP was more than well deserving........

Well I cant speak to such low standards, I guess. A dominant car passing a Haas on his way to finish 3rd place behind his teammate and a person in an ultimately weaker car doesn't strike me as the most exciting way to close out as a supposed champion drive.

EDIT: I'm realizing you were probably being sarcastic. My bad. It's hard to tell sometimes. lol

[PlatinumZealot]

Was the Mclaren a dominant car though? I don't think is was after McLaren stopped developing it. Reminiscent of Brawn in 2009.

[rbirules]

Can one argue that Max gave the championship away? Did Lando make less mistakes than Max? It's worth the analysis.

You can argue that Red Bull needs a better performing second driver. Yuki did not take a single point of McLaren this year (on the other hand, he also did not take a single point of Max)

That's Red Bull's MO. They back a single driver and the other guy is left to rot. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't.

Ironically, a Perez this year would have helped Max win the title where Yuki had no chance. Live by the sword, die by it...

Would he have? He didn't finish ahead of Lando after Japan last year, and didn't finish ahead of Oscar after Miami (Oscar got the Miami update the next race in Imola).

Which races would Checo have helped at this year that Yuki and Liam were unable to? Baku was his best track but Yuki finished ahead of Lando there (only time he beat Lando) so that doesn't matter. Singapore? Jeddah, maybe? I get that only one or two instances would have made a difference but I struggle to find races where it would have been possible based on 2024 (given Yuki's Baku result).

[TimW]

You can argue that Red Bull needs a better performing second driver. Yuki did not take a single point of McLaren this year (on the other hand, he also did not take a single point of Max)

That's Red Bull's MO. They back a single driver and the other guy is left to rot. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't.

Ironically, a Perez this year would have helped Max win the title where Yuki had no chance. Live by the sword, die by it...

Would he have? He didn't finish ahead of Lando after Japan last year, and didn't finish ahead of Oscar after Miami (Oscar got the Miami update the next race in Imola).

Which races would Checo have helped at this year that Yuki and Liam were unable to? Baku was his best track but Yuki finished ahead of Lando there (only time he beat Lando) so that doesn't matter. Singapore? Jeddah, maybe? I get that only one or two instances would have made a difference but I struggle to find races where it would have been possible based on 2024 (given Yuki's Baku result).

Yuki's holding up of Lando yesterday felt rather amateurish compared to Perez in '21, but it would not have made any difference for the result anyway.

The problem was more the characteristics of the car than the quality of the 2nd driver. It is not that Red Bull don't want a better performing second driver, they don't swap drivers for no reason. The problem is that they seem unable to produce a more benign car without losing performance.

[basti313]

Verstappen has been fortunate McLaren had two strong drivers pushing each other and taking points of each other. If McLaren had a definite #2 and had favoured one driver all season then the WDC would have been over a good few races ago.

I think this is the other way round: McLaren had two very good #2 drivers. And that in different formats:
- Until Hungary Oscar looked like a genuine Nr1. Genuinely fast, just loosing points mainly on unlucky events, unfavoring strategy etc... I was joking about him doing a Webber, but this was really only joking around. Lando looked like a genuine Nr2, faster than a Perez, just winning occationally with a substantial weakness for starts and first laps after SC just like Bottas for example.
- After Hungary, no idea what happened there...Oscar did a Webber and was driving like a Webber. Always lacking the last bit of pace, clumsy, not focussed.

The narrow field spread this season also helped other drivers take points of the McLaren drivers. A few tenths in qualifying have been the difference between P2 and P6.

Well, that is the difference between a Nr1 and a Nr2. A Nr. 1 like a Verstappen or a Hamilton in his prime did not leave these few tenths on the table when it counted. Or like Vettel killed his Webber....just 2 tenths quicker every Q.

[basti313]

That's Red Bull's MO. They back a single driver and the other guy is left to rot. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't.

Ironically, a Perez this year would have helped Max win the title where Yuki had no chance. Live by the sword, die by it...

Would he have? He didn't finish ahead of Lando after Japan last year, and didn't finish ahead of Oscar after Miami (Oscar got the Miami update the next race in Imola).

Which races would Checo have helped at this year that Yuki and Liam were unable to? Baku was his best track but Yuki finished ahead of Lando there (only time he beat Lando) so that doesn't matter. Singapore? Jeddah, maybe? I get that only one or two instances would have made a difference but I struggle to find races where it would have been possible based on 2024 (given Yuki's Baku result).

Yuki's holding up of Lando yesterday felt rather amateurish compared to Perez in '21, but it would not have made any difference for the result anyway.

The problem was more the characteristics of the car than the quality of the 2nd driver. It is not that Red Bull don't want a better performing second driver, they don't swap drivers for no reason. The problem is that they seem unable to produce a more benign car without losing performance.

Well, it is on the limit, there are always faster and slower cars in F1. So I do not get this point of "produce a more benign car without losing performance"....everyone tries to produce a faster car, right? And performance goes always with being more peaky, this starts by lowering you roadcar, same topic for any car. You and me would not make a corner in a F1 car.
And Yuki set up the car in a way he is still able to drive it...but then it is too slow. It is not like he ever got a quick lap out of this car, but he really was driving a different car because he could not handle it otherwise.

I agree on the point that they are trying. Otherwise they could have stayed with Perez and get his money instead of now changing through drivers. I think it is rather costly also to Ver, that the young drivers need the limited track time on older cars. But I also see it as above, also a Perez would not have helped most likely....still he would not have been that clumsy...

And the point of clumsy is the issue. Yuki took several years to accomodate with the AT back in the day. He was basically out at the point and somehow Marko (pushed by Honda?) made the error of keeping him and even promoting him where he went back to the AT problems. Keep Ric, hire Schu, try to get on good terms again with Sainz....there were so many options. Yuki and Lawson were the biggest errors Marko ever made in my point of view.

[Bill]

Would he have? He didn't finish ahead of Lando after Japan last year, and didn't finish ahead of Oscar after Miami (Oscar got the Miami update the next race in Imola).

Which races would Checo have helped at this year that Yuki and Liam were unable to? Baku was his best track but Yuki finished ahead of Lando there (only time he beat Lando) so that doesn't matter. Singapore? Jeddah, maybe? I get that only one or two instances would have made a difference but I struggle to find races where it would have been possible based on 2024 (given Yuki's Baku result).

Yuki's holding up of Lando yesterday felt rather amateurish compared to Perez in '21, but it would not have made any difference for the result anyway.

The problem was more the characteristics of the car than the quality of the 2nd driver. It is not that Red Bull don't want a better performing second driver, they don't swap drivers for no reason. The problem is that they seem unable to produce a more benign car without losing performance.

Well, it is on the limit, there are always faster and slower cars in F1. So I do not get this point of "produce a more benign car without losing performance"....everyone tries to produce a faster car, right? And performance goes always with being more peaky, this starts by lowering you roadcar, same topic for any car. You and me would not make a corner in a F1 car.
And Yuki set up the car in a way he is still able to drive it...but then it is too slow. It is not like he ever got a quick lap out of this car, but he really was driving a different car because he could not handle it otherwise.

I agree on the point that they are trying. Otherwise they could have stayed with Perez and get his money instead of now changing through drivers. I think it is rather costly also to Ver, that the young drivers need the limited track time on older cars. But I also see it as above, also a Perez would not have helped most likely....still he would not have been that clumsy...

And the point of clumsy is the issue. Yuki took several years to accomodate with the AT back in the day. He was basically out at the point and somehow Marko (pushed by Honda?) made the error of keeping him and even promoting him where he went back to the AT problems. Keep Ric, hire Schu, try to get on good terms again with Sainz....there were so many options. Yuki and Lawson were the biggest errors Marko ever made in my point of view.

[Bill]

Yuki's holding up of Lando yesterday felt rather amateurish compared to Perez in '21, but it would not have made any difference for the result anyway.

The problem was more the characteristics of the car than the quality of the 2nd driver. It is not that Red Bull don't want a better performing second driver, they don't swap drivers for no reason. The problem is that they seem unable to produce a more benign car without losing performance.

Well, it is on the limit, there are always faster and slower cars in F1. So I do not get this point of "produce a more benign car without losing performance"....everyone tries to produce a faster car, right? And performance goes always with being more peaky, this starts by lowering you roadcar, same topic for any car. You and me would not make a corner in a F1 car.
And Yuki set up the car in a way he is still able to drive it...but then it is too slow. It is not like he ever got a quick lap out of this car, but he really was driving a different car because he could not handle it otherwise.

I agree on the point that they are trying. Otherwise they could have stayed with Perez and get his money instead of now changing through drivers. I think it is rather costly also to Ver, that the young drivers need the limited track time on older cars. But I also see it as above, also a Perez would not have helped most likely....still he would not have been that clumsy...

And the point of clumsy is the issue. Yuki took several years to accomodate with the AT back in the day. He was basically out at the point and somehow Marko (pushed by Honda?) made the error of keeping him and even promoting him where he went back to the AT problems. Keep Ric, hire Schu, try to get on good terms again with Sainz....there were so many options. Yuki and Lawson were the biggest errors Marko ever made in my point of view.

The role of perez helping Max win 2021 is oversold and silly Lewis stayed ahead and was poised to win that race until safety car moment. It's Marsi that helped max win "human error".the role of second driver is irrelevant.

[bananapeel23]

Well, it is on the limit, there are always faster and slower cars in F1. So I do not get this point of "produce a more benign car without losing performance"....everyone tries to produce a faster car, right? And performance goes always with being more peaky, this starts by lowering you roadcar, same topic for any car. You and me would not make a corner in a F1 car.
And Yuki set up the car in a way he is still able to drive it...but then it is too slow. It is not like he ever got a quick lap out of this car, but he really was driving a different car because he could not handle it otherwise.

I agree on the point that they are trying. Otherwise they could have stayed with Perez and get his money instead of now changing through drivers. I think it is rather costly also to Ver, that the young drivers need the limited track time on older cars. But I also see it as above, also a Perez would not have helped most likely....still he would not have been that clumsy...

And the point of clumsy is the issue. Yuki took several years to accomodate with the AT back in the day. He was basically out at the point and somehow Marko (pushed by Honda?) made the error of keeping him and even promoting him where he went back to the AT problems. Keep Ric, hire Schu, try to get on good terms again with Sainz....there were so many options. Yuki and Lawson were the biggest errors Marko ever made in my point of view.

The role of perez helping Max win 2021 is oversold and silly Lewis stayed ahead and was poised to win that race until safety car moment. It's Marsi that helped max win "human error".the role of second driver is irrelevant.

That does not change the fact that Lewis would've had time to pit under the safety car and come out first if Perez didn't cost him 8 seconds of race time.