2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

[Pierce89]

The lack of speed at the top of eau rouge is mostly down to lack of power, not drag or inadequate levels of downforce, but engine power, which is the most contributing factor when driving up steep hills.

maybe that explain why william struggled to overtake mclaren in the end of the straight not only that they got overtaken by other easily and remember william has a mercedes enigine in the back,both mclaren and william went for high DF bigger rear wing setting, wrong move in hindsight

Williams and Mclaren is a poor comparison. Macca has a strong chassis let down by a weak PU, whereas Williams has the strongest PU available let down by a weak chassis. It's actually funny that the two opposites work out to roughly the same pace. Williams and FI are the poster boys for showing that PU performance is still a HUGE differentiater between cars. With a Merc PU, I believe the current Macca chassis would be a routine podium contender.

[SameSame]

Does anyone know if some of Alonso's PUs can be salvaged? If not Monza might be a good place to build up a pool again for both him and Button.

[mrluke]

If its all down to drag through eau rouge, then how do you explain them reaching the same speeds as red bull at the end of the straight, the red bull with the skinny wings? Drag should increase if speed increases, and they're going faster down the straight than they are through eau rouge. So, explain please

It seems to me that both times, (in Baku and spa) that the engine is the culprit. It is underpowered, so the car reaches its top speed later than its rivals. Hence it enters the straight going slower but reaches the same speed by the end. I'm not saying the Honda engine is way underpowered like last year, but I'm saying there is still a noticeable power deficit to the Renault engine, which in turn has a 40 hp ish power deficit to merc

A car reaches its top speed when its BHP is equal to the resistance forces, primarily air resistance in this case.

As both the Mclaren and RBR reach the same top speed their bhp vs (aero) drag ratios must be the same (at this speed) (top speed is not limited by RPM / gear ratio on this occasion).

When entering a high speed corner (~320kmh+) one team exits this corner at 316kph and the other exits at 310kph.

Therefore I am stating that they are carrying very similar drag levels but one team has more grip in high speed corners, i.e. more downforce.

My deduction therefore is that RBR have a better downforce : drag ratio that Mclaren do.

Here is a link to the pole lap by Ros, you can see he enters at over 320kph, stays flat throughout, yet scrubs some speed at the moments of hardest cornering, his apex speed drops below 310kph but hes doing around 315kph by the time he hits the S1 speed trap.

http://www.formula1.com/en/video/2016/8 ... _2016.html

To be extra clear, we have established that both RBR and Mclaren reach the same top speed, therefore their bhp:drag is practically identical. Therefore there is no argument that one team accelerates quicker because they have a more powerful engine, even if this was true they have cancelled this out by running an equal increase in drag.

Both teams exceed 310kph before Eau rouge so it is not a question of being unable to accelerate in the available distance, it is simply a question of how quickly each team can drive through Eau Rouge.

[daren_p]

If its all down to drag through eau rouge, then how do you explain them reaching the same speeds as red bull at the end of the straight, the red bull with the skinny wings? Drag should increase if speed increases, and they're going faster down the straight than they are through eau rouge. So, explain please

It seems to me that both times, (in Baku and spa) that the engine is the culprit. It is underpowered, so the car reaches its top speed later than its rivals. Hence it enters the straight going slower but reaches the same speed by the end. I'm not saying the Honda engine is way underpowered like last year, but I'm saying there is still a noticeable power deficit to the Renault engine, which in turn has a 40 hp ish power deficit to merc

A car reaches its top speed when its BHP is equal to the resistance forces, primarily air resistance in this case.

As both the Mclaren and RBR reach the same top speed their bhp vs (aero) drag ratios must be the same (at this speed) (top speed is not limited by RPM / gear ratio on this occasion).

When entering a high speed corner (~320kmh+) one team exits this corner at 316kph and the other exits at 310kph.

Therefore I am stating that they are carrying very similar drag levels but one team has more grip in high speed corners, i.e. more downforce.

My deduction therefore is that RBR have a better downforce : drag ratio that Mclaren do.

Here is a link to the pole lap by Ros, you can see he enters at over 320kph, stays flat throughout, yet scrubs some speed at the moments of hardest cornering, his apex speed drops below 310kph but hes doing around 315kph by the time he hits the S1 speed trap.

http://www.formula1.com/en/video/2016/8 ... _2016.html

To be extra clear, we have established that both RBR and Mclaren reach the same top speed, therefore their bhp:drag is practically identical. Therefore there is no argument that one team accelerates quicker because they have a more powerful engine, even if this was true they have cancelled this out by running an equal increase in drag.

Both teams exceed 310kph before Eau rouge so it is not a question of being unable to accelerate in the available distance, it is simply a question of how quickly each team can drive through Eau Rouge.

Would this not only be true if both p/u's are producing the same power? Renault makes more power then the Honda, so if their hitting the same max speed at the end of the straight, should that not mean Redbull have more drag & likely downforce?

[Alonso Fan]

'it is simply a question of how quickly each team can drive through Eau Rouge.'

Absolutely right

All I'm saying is that McLaren scrub more speed than anyone through eau rouge and this is mostly due to the engine being underpowered AFAIK

[CjC]

Love reading the debates peeps.

This place would explode if Mclaren get a podium in Monza with a tea-tray rear wing and a cascade-less front wing
[-o<

[Andres125sx]

You say McLaren has along way to catch up with RBR and Mercedes chassis, but also say people shouldn´t think they´re third best chassis...

please dont misquote me i said eric B tell us that mclaren have 3rd best chassis and not me.

Exactly, you said Boullier said that, source?

[mrluke]

Would this not only be true if both p/u's are producing the same power? Renault makes more power then the Honda, so if their hitting the same max speed at the end of the straight, should that not mean Redbull have more drag & likely downforce?

Its impossible to say for definite, but "visually" RBR does not appear to be running a significantly higher drag aero setup. If anything you would say that Mclaren are running one that is slightly draggier what with the larger rear wing. This suggests that both teams have very similar power outputs from the PUs.

'it is simply a question of how quickly each team can drive through Eau Rouge.'

Absolutely right

All I'm saying is that McLaren scrub more speed than anyone through eau rouge and this is mostly due to the engine being underpowered AFAIK

Im arguing that corner speed is dependent on downforce whereas you appear to be arguing it is down to engine power. Considering both teams are entering the corner faster than they are exiting I cannot see how this could be true.

[Dipesh1995]

The Renault has more power than the Honda and therefore decelerates less up a steep hill compared to the Honda. Think of it as riding a bike up a steep hill, the more power you have, the less you will slow down. I would say the steepness of Eau Rouge/ Radillon is more of a dominant factor than its "corner" factor. If Eau Rouge/ Radillon had no inclination, it would be taken flat-out even more easily than it already is being imo.

[SameSame]

Im arguing that corner speed is dependent on downforce whereas you appear to be arguing it is down to engine power. Considering both teams are entering the corner faster than they are exiting I cannot see how this could be true.

Seeing as Eau Rouge is comfortably flat it is most certainly power dependant (especially in low fuel and fresh tyres). The massive elevation is the main reason for the drop in speed. If it was a flat section they would most certainly exit at similar if not faster speeds.

[techman]

Exactly, you said Boullier said that, source?

link http://www.carscoops.com/2016/05/mclare ... -best.html

[techman]

iam just hoping the engines will get tested in 2017nand performnace index will be given to public to decide, then we would definetly see what chassis are overrated or not.. everyone here compares the best of chassis that represent that engine. if renault was not in a redbull, people heree would have thought honda is more powerfull than a renault since the reanult works teams is struggling for straight line speed and cornering speed. very unfortuate for honda, tehy dont have a benchmark chassis to show the full performace of their engine.

[diffuser]

s3 and s1 have long straight and are quick for william according to YOU then why couldnt william overtake alonso in the straight in s1 , s2 is the mid section .both william and mclaren need to improve it aero efficiency so they can run skinny wings like redbull and mercedes.
and since you said its the power that requires you to be quick in s1 then why did william got overtaken by other a lot. lets face the truth, william and mclaren need to improve its aero efficiency so that other cars will not overtake them in the straight. its not only an engine power issue.

Don't forget s2 ,on average, took 5second less to complete than s1+s3. S2 is a very significant part of the lap,

[PlatinumZealot]

Back to the team. What do you guys think of this Jost Capito guy?

[GoranF1]

http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/2016/it ... x-preview/

Monza team preview.