Christian Horner under Investigation

[Watto]

Well she seems to have had Jos and Helmut on her side, for some reason that's probably not moral outrage. Have you seen full on harassment messages? I've only seen a few but they were more like two people in a relationship, joking.

Yes, I have a copy of the messages, and can categorically say they are far worse than two people joking. In my view there is a clear case of sexual harassment and a breach of the law. The question is whether or not the messages are genuine, and I still haven't seen a single objective reason that proves the messages are fake. The only suggestion I've seen is that the messages could be faked, not that they have been faked.

RB Austrian arm became unhappy when they learnt their Thai controlling owner was maybe looking at selling Red Bull technology from under their nose to Horner and a group of investors and wanted him gone.


They learn of the relationship between CH and his PA want to use it to remove Horner while there is a relationship it may not be all that strong to legally enforce.

Offer to cover her - maybe even participate who knows in creating false messages to ramp up pressure to force Horner out, the Austrian arm would cover her lawyers and any fallout that may arise.

They went to Horner with a brief of evidence thinking they could make him walk and avoid any damage. Then the Thai owner stepped in and it begun to sour fast - it may explain RBR claim she was dishonest to the investigation.

[dialtone]

Well she seems to have had Jos and Helmut on her side, for some reason that's probably not moral outrage. Have you seen full on harassment messages? I've only seen a few but they were more like two people in a relationship, joking.

Yes, I have a copy of the messages, and can categorically say they are far worse than two people joking. In my view there is a clear case of sexual harassment and a breach of the law. The question is whether or not the messages are genuine, and I still haven't seen a single objective reason that proves the messages are fake. The only suggestion I've seen is that the messages could be faked, not that they have been faked.

RB Austrian arm became unhappy when they learnt their Thai controlling owner was maybe looking at selling Red Bull technology from under their nose to Horner and a group of investors and wanted him gone.


They learn of the relationship between CH and his PA want to use it to remove Horner while there is a relationship it may not be all that strong to legally enforce.

Offer to cover her - maybe even participate who knows in creating false messages to ramp up pressure to force Horner out, the Austrian arm would cover her lawyers and any fallout that may arise.

They went to Horner with a brief of evidence thinking they could make him walk and avoid any damage. Then the Thai owner stepped in and it begun to sour fast - it may explain RBR claim she was dishonest to the investigation.

Be that as it may I'm absolutely shocked a fox like Horner would be so unwise. That was just a ticking bomb, someone was going to take advantage of that situation.

[f1jcw]

Offer to cover her - maybe even participate who knows in creating false messages to ramp up pressure to force Horner out, the Austrian arm would cover her lawyers and any fallout that may arise.

Why do people persist in this, no one from Redbull has even stated that they're false. Which they surly would.
If they were true in your mind would you still defend Horner.

[Venturiation]

A serious question...
Who contributed the most to Red Bull during all these years?
I honestly believe that Marko (I could be wrong)

verstappen said Marko made the team, he doesn't even mention ch

[Watto]

Yes, I have a copy of the messages, and can categorically say they are far worse than two people joking. In my view there is a clear case of sexual harassment and a breach of the law. The question is whether or not the messages are genuine, and I still haven't seen a single objective reason that proves the messages are fake. The only suggestion I've seen is that the messages could be faked, not that they have been faked.

RB Austrian arm became unhappy when they learnt their Thai controlling owner was maybe looking at selling Red Bull technology from under their nose to Horner and a group of investors and wanted him gone.


They learn of the relationship between CH and his PA want to use it to remove Horner while there is a relationship it may not be all that strong to legally enforce.

Offer to cover her - maybe even participate who knows in creating false messages to ramp up pressure to force Horner out, the Austrian arm would cover her lawyers and any fallout that may arise.

They went to Horner with a brief of evidence thinking they could make him walk and avoid any damage. Then the Thai owner stepped in and it begun to sour fast - it may explain RBR claim she was dishonest to the investigation.

Be that as it may I'm absolutely shocked a fox like Horner would be so unwise. That was just a ticking bomb, someone was going to take advantage of that situation.

Hardly uncommon for a man in his position though think history is littered with things like that.

[quote=Watto post_id=<a href="tel:1197648">1197648</a> time=<a href="tel:1709937441">1709937441</a> user_id=44569]

Offer to cover her - maybe even participate who knows in creating false messages to ramp up pressure to force Horner out, the Austrian arm would cover her lawyers and any fallout that may arise.

Why do people persist in this, no one from Redbull has even stated that they're false. Which they surly would.
If they were true in your mind would you still defend Horner.
[/quote] I have said repeatedly if they are true Horner should be gone. Moreso my impression is they are genuine.

But my point was some of the messages were very likely real-that *maybe* some were false so you can’t really deny it when some are real , bu all means they could and more likely are all real.

But internet detectives don’t always have good accuracy with these kinds of things

[dialtone]

Hardly uncommon for a man in his position though think history is littered with things like that.

They are stupid men and hardly a representation for all men, or even a majority, in those kind of positions. But even if we disagree on that, if the bar we set for horner is the average horny boss... I think it should already be telling a story in itself.

[PierreW]

Ultimately, things have to be decided in order for the team to work well in the future.

The owner has decided to back Horner, which is probably the right choice. The accuser, the leaker, and those who oppose Horner must probably leave now for Red Bull Racing to continue to operate smoothly and efficiently.

[f1jcw]

Ultimately, things have to be decided in order for the team to work well in the future.

The owner has decided to back Horner, which is probably the right choice. The accuser, the leaker, and those who oppose Horner must probably leave now for Red Bull Racing to continue to operate smoothly and efficiently.

Accuser. Leaker, opposers.
But not the abuser?

Not sure things will be so easily brushed under the carpet.
This has being weeks and it still isn't dying down, I'm sure the staff will be in turmol

[PierreW]

Ultimately, things have to be decided in order for the team to work well in the future.

The owner has decided to back Horner, which is probably the right choice. The accuser, the leaker, and those who oppose Horner must probably leave now for Red Bull Racing to continue to operate smoothly and efficiently.

Accuser. Leaker, opposers.
But not the abuser?

Not sure things will be so easily brushed under the carpet.
This has being weeks and it still isn't dying down, I'm sure the staff will be in turmol

Nothing indicate that the staff isn't supporting its team leader, who has been the head and the creator of all this team since its beginning with all the success.

At one point a choice must be made. The owner had decided that the extremely succesfull team leader will continue. Those who are against that and can not accept the choice of the owner must leave.

[maxxer]

Has Horner actually done anything, apart from get caught? The big question is why the complaint got made, isn't it? When it did, after apparently years.

But anyway yes Newey is key, as long as they have him they don't need Max, especially in this gang with Jos and Helmut.

The leaked text messages covered March 2023 through to January this year. The complaint was made because it looks like Horner was continuing to sexually harass the lady.

Horner is the CEO and team principal of the Red Bull F1 team. Suspending the complainant and launching the investigation into Marko will be his choice.

I can't see Newey wanting to stay in place if the engine isn't going to be on par with the best in 2026, he'll know how that program is going. But it may be irrelevant if Ferrari are successful in their reported recruitment campaign for several key people who work alongside Newey. It was the brain drain from Mercedes primarily to Red Bull and Aston Martin over the last couple of years that has really hampered them, and the current rumblings at Red Bull could give impetus to a similar brain drain away from them now. As great as Newey is he still needs a talented team of the top aerodynamicists around him to do the bulk of the work.

Well she seems to have had Jos and Helmut on her side, for some reason that's probably not moral outrage. Have you seen full on harassment messages? I've only seen a few but they were more like two people in a relationship, joking.

And leaking the messages wouldn't be her would it? All of them, like that. It was a lot of screenshotting! instead of just exporting the chats and only the harassing ones. There's something vindictive about how it was done, and I think I know who's vindictive in this saga

Adrian, I don't think he'll be predicting doom on the engine already will he? I'd have thought he be more enjoying telling them how tiny is has to be with how little heat being sent to his radiators! Tho his wife did like a post about him joining Ferrari apparently...

She and him would have needed to hand over the company phones to match the chats i am sure.
And so far we dont know those details currently they are unsided and uncomformed from an external source.
As long as as people cant verify this from both phones and what was going on i am not going along with it.

[Watto]

Hardly uncommon for a man in his position though think history is littered with things like that.

They are stupid men and hardly a representation for all men, or even a majority, in those kind of positions. But even if we disagree on that, if the bar we set for horner is the average horny boss... I think it should already be telling a story in itself.

not a majority I agree but wouldn’t be the first nor the last person caught in such circumstances.

I’d agree Its also just asking for trouble if something ever went wrong; but equally leaks to the media can easily be very deceptive unless you know all the information.

[Watto]

Ultimately, things have to be decided in order for the team to work well in the future.

The owner has decided to back Horner, which is probably the right choice. The accuser, the leaker, and those who oppose Horner must probably leave now for Red Bull Racing to continue to operate smoothly and efficiently.

Accuser. Leaker, opposers.
But not the abuser?

Not sure things will be so easily brushed under the carpet.
This has being weeks and it still isn't dying down, I'm sure the staff will be in turmol

Nothing indicate that the staff isn't supporting its team leader, who has been the head and the creator of all this team since its beginning with all the success.

At one point a choice must be made. The owner had decided that the extremely succesfull team leader will continue. Those who are against that and can not accept the choice of the owner must leave.

Thats far too simplistic if she has been abused it’s not right; and there are workplace laws around to protect people in such circumstances for very good reasons.

[f1jcw]

Accuser. Leaker, opposers.
But not the abuser?

Not sure things will be so easily brushed under the carpet.
This has being weeks and it still isn't dying down, I'm sure the staff will be in turmol

Nothing indicate that the staff isn't supporting its team leader, who has been the head and the creator of all this team since its beginning with all the success.

At one point a choice must be made. The owner had decided that the extremely succesfull team leader will continue. Those who are against that and can not accept the choice of the owner must leave.

Thats far too simplistic if she has been abused it’s not right; and there are workplace laws around to protect people in such circumstances for very good reasons.

I don't know about you, but if I had found that my boss had abused a female employee, that there was a powerplay at the top with people getting suspended and forced out, if the media and outside worldwas looking at the work place with disgust, I would be very very far from supportive of the boss. If the current work force are very supportive, then to my mine there is something very very strange.
I and my work mates would be discussing it very much and we would very unhappy and I'd be looking at my options elsewhere.

[myurr]

She and him would have needed to hand over the company phones to match the chats i am sure.
And so far we dont know those details currently they are unsided and uncomformed from an external source.
As long as as people cant verify this from both phones and what was going on i am not going along with it.

If the leak wasn't of genuine messages then there wouldn't be an internal investigation into the source of the leak. So at least some of the messages are genuine, and if some are genuine then the balance of probability is that all of them are. We have no reason to suspect that any of the messages are fake.

The victim also wouldn't be taking the case to court if she was faking the key evidence.

So Horner's possible redemption lies in there being more to the story than him sexually harassing that poor girl and then using his position within Red Bull to cover it up. In the meantime he's ripping the heart out of the team, and even if some key people stay if Max leaves the team with Marko then that is going to send a signal to the rest of the staff that all is not well. There will be people within the team that know the details of the case, those people will talk to other people, so if Horner has done wrong there'll be plenty of people in the team that will rethink working there.

[Watto]

Nothing indicate that the staff isn't supporting its team leader, who has been the head and the creator of all this team since its beginning with all the success.

At one point a choice must be made. The owner had decided that the extremely succesfull team leader will continue. Those who are against that and can not accept the choice of the owner must leave.

Thats far too simplistic if she has been abused it’s not right; and there are workplace laws around to protect people in such circumstances for very good reasons.

I don't know about you, but if I had found that my boss had abused a female employee, that there was a powerplay at the top with people getting suspended and forced out, if the media and outside worldwas looking at the work place with disgust, I would be very very far from supportive of the boss. If the current work force are very supportive, then to my mine there is something very very strange.
I and my work mates would be discussing it very much and we would very unhappy and I'd be looking at my options elsewhere.

if that’s the case RB are playing an extremely dangerous game that’s more likely to blow up in their faces.

Just I feel like I’ve followed cases like this where leaks can be deceptive and reading into thing like that can be very hard without all the information. How a group of people should react when their boss seems to have a disregard for their welfare in trial by media.


If they’ve suspended - and especially if she is terminated in the end, just because she made a complaint about her boss and there’s nothing else in it then I hope RB pay the price for it