Mclaren Honda 2015

[Thunder]

yay i got something right....

[GoranF1]

yay i got something right....

argiriano or quickshifter?

[GoranF1]

Honda engine upgrade is believed to provide 0.5 sec per lap. .

Source?

[Thunder]

Don't have an Autosport Account. ^^ I just lurk over there and in the Mclaren Threads many times just fly over the Text written. Too much drama.

[mrluke]

I think it has been established that the problem with the PU is the deficiency in the MGU-H unit and the turbine/compressor design. The ICE unit has no problems with "top revs". These engines are capable of revving a lot higher if not for the fuel flow rate restriction. In race trim, I don't think you see any of the engines attaining RPM's of higher than 11K.

IMO the aero package is okay. I think the chassis itself is a "midpack" chassis and even with the Merc PU, wouldn't keep up with the Silver Arrows today.

Must disagree. the packing of the Mclaren is super tight. Williams has a somewhat similar approach but is generally fatter.
Still they are able to stay relatively pretty close to the works teams. IF Mclaren had that exact same Merc powerplant and gearbox as the works team has, then Mclaren would be right up there with them and Ferrari.

There's also little evidence to suggest their chassis is as good as/better than Ferrari or Williams.

[Bigal38]

I was doing some simple maths here, I didn't watch the race so please correct me if there's wrong data:
The safety car was at the end of lap 16, so we had 37 laps of green flag racing. At the end of the race there was a 79 second difference between Hamilton and Button, so on race pace the McLaren is an average of 2,13 seconds off the Mercedes, and that's on a not so fast track. I'd say that if McLaren can fight for podiums next season that may go as one of the biggest comebacks on the sport's history.

McLaren are on average 2.5-3 seconds a lap slower on race lap pace, but generally 2 to 2.5 seconds a lap down on one lap pace, thats on a average 5km lap. That means they can be a sitting duck most of the time. Id say that McLaren will make a second in chassis design in 2016 and another 1.5-2 on PU improvements. McLaren look on paper to be competitive in 2016, but id say they will be 2 seconds closer next year. It is all dependant on their TC, MGU-H and MGU-K design and advancements for 2016, the new spec Honda is a half a second up the road, and on that side there is room for optimism, but unless they can get their TC and MGU-H manufactured and in before Homologation, or in as a token update start/middle of next year, the Honda may be stillborn next year and there may be another year of hurt to come. Id say there is a 50/50 chance they can fight for podiums, but it is all far too dependant on what Honda bring on a engine side and not what Mclaren can bring on a chassis side.

Pretty sure the gap is bigger than that still as i don't think Merc are running their new power unit anywhere its full potential, but do hope McHonda can at least be a little more competitive next season.

[turbof1]

You also have to consider that they are running compromised aero set ups to somewhat compensate the lack of speed.

The good news about this is that the gained horsepower next year can be converted to running more drag and downforce, increasing the lap time gains. I'm pretty sure there's some leverage ratio/formula out there that describes this phenonemom.

[Wazari]

I think it has been established that the problem with the PU is the deficiency in the MGU-H unit and the turbine/compressor design. The ICE unit has no problems with "top revs". These engines are capable of revving a lot higher if not for the fuel flow rate restriction. In race trim, I don't think you see any of the engines attaining RPM's of higher than 11K.

IMO the aero package is okay. I think the chassis itself is a "midpack" chassis and even with the Merc PU, wouldn't keep up with the Silver Arrows today.

Must disagree. the packing of the Mclaren is super tight. Williams has a somewhat similar approach but is generally fatter.
Still they are able to stay relatively pretty close to the works teams. IF Mclaren had that exact same Merc powerplant and gearbox as the works team has, then Mclaren would be right up there with them and Ferrari.

Sorry but no way.

[ojlopez]

Does anybody have a video showing the sound of Alonso's new engine? Can't seem to find it anywhere

[nanocustic]

I think it has been established that the problem with the PU is the deficiency in the MGU-H unit and the turbine/compressor design. The ICE unit has no problems with "top revs". These engines are capable of revving a lot higher if not for the fuel flow rate restriction. In race trim, I don't think you see any of the engines attaining RPM's of higher than 11K.

IMO the aero package is okay. I think the chassis itself is a "midpack" chassis and even with the Merc PU, wouldn't keep up with the Silver Arrows today.

Must disagree. the packing of the Mclaren is super tight. Williams has a somewhat similar approach but is generally fatter.
Still they are able to stay relatively pretty close to the works teams. IF Mclaren had that exact same Merc powerplant and gearbox as the works team has, then Mclaren would be right up there with them and Ferrari.

Sorry but no way.

And that's because..? For example, I doubt that RedBull got a "rubbish chassis" out of nowhere since last 2 seasons. In that logic then, I suspect the impact of the engine performance is far more significant than the chassis.

[zeph]

I think it has been established that the problem with the PU is the deficiency in the MGU-H unit and the turbine/compressor design. The ICE unit has no problems with "top revs". These engines are capable of revving a lot higher if not for the fuel flow rate restriction. In race trim, I don't think you see any of the engines attaining RPM's of higher than 11K.

IMO the aero package is okay. I think the chassis itself is a "midpack" chassis and even with the Merc PU, wouldn't keep up with the Silver Arrows today.

Must disagree. the packing of the Mclaren is super tight. Williams has a somewhat similar approach but is generally fatter.
Still they are able to stay relatively pretty close to the works teams. IF Mclaren had that exact same Merc powerplant and gearbox as the works team has, then Mclaren would be right up there with them and Ferrari.

There's also little evidence to suggest their chassis is as good as/better than Ferrari or Williams.

Exactly. Some people seem to forget McLaren was rubbish in 2013 and 2014 as well, when they had Merc power.

And a lot of their engineering staff defected to Mercedes, IIRC.

[PlatinumZealot]

That Tim Goss Chassis is rubbish (relatively speaking of course lol) just like all his chassis are.

[Edax]

I was doing some simple maths here, I didn't watch the race so please correct me if there's wrong data:
The safety car was at the end of lap 16, so we had 37 laps of green flag racing. At the end of the race there was a 79 second difference between Hamilton and Button, so on race pace the McLaren is an average of 2,13 seconds off the Mercedes, and that's on a not so fast track. I'd say that if McLaren can fight for podiums next season that may go as one of the biggest comebacks on the sport's history.

McLaren are on average 2.5-3 seconds a lap slower on race lap pace, but generally 2 to 2.5 seconds a lap down on one lap pace, thats on a average 5km lap. That means they can be a sitting duck most of the time. Id say that McLaren will make a second in chassis design in 2016 and another 1.5-2 on PU improvements. McLaren look on paper to be competitive in 2016, but id say they will be 2 seconds closer next year. It is all dependant on their TC, MGU-H and MGU-K design and advancements for 2016, the new spec Honda is a half a second up the road, and on that side there is room for optimism, but unless they can get their TC and MGU-H manufactured and in before Homologation, or in as a token update start/middle of next year, the Honda may be stillborn next year and there may be another year of hurt to come. Id say there is a 50/50 chance they can fight for podiums, but it is all far too dependant on what Honda bring on a engine side and not what Mclaren can bring on a chassis side.

Pretty sure the gap is bigger than that still as i don't think Merc are running their new power unit anywhere its full potential, but do hope McHonda can at least be a little more competitive next season.

I have to say that in the last two races I see some glimmers of hope. Main problem is the loss of electrical boost at the end of the straights. But apart from that the engine package does not seem that bad that they should not be able to cover a power shortfall with their overall design like Red bull has been doing for years with the Renault engines.

I do think they have a chassis problem as well. Especially the front end of the car seems very bouncy and twitchy under braking/turn in. Right now they are sitting ducks in the hard braking zones. I don't think it is airo, but more suspension related.

If they solve those issues over winter they can put up some performance next year. Maybe not enough to fight for podiums on a regular basis, but at least they can aim for the top of the midfield.

And hopefully that will be enough to retain the sponsors. Because as I said before my main worry is that they run out of development money before they are competitive.

[NL_Fer]

Actually, Adrian Newey mentioned that with the new turbo v6 and 2014 aero rules, the actual chassis design doesn't really matter as much as the engine. The chassis is a direct result of the pu demands. The less room and smaller cooling radiators the pu needs, the better the chassis will get.

It's the excelent pu design of Mercedes, what makes their chassis so great.

McLaren has a great chassis, because of the size zero back, but it demanded sacrefices for the Honda design, not being able to develop enough (ers) power.

Key is to built a pu, which is a perfect trade off for power and size. Then built an as tight as possible chassis around it.

[mrluke]

I think in this context chassis refers to everything that isn't PU or tyres i.e. packaging, aero, suspension...