2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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EJ22B
EJ22B
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Joined: 29 May 2022, 10:04

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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It's a Merc engine limitation. Last year, if anyone listened to radios of Albon, Vettel, Lewis and George you will have seen deployment being a common complain by those drivers during the middle of the race.

Albon's engineer told him several times because of PU being hot they have to turn down the deployment. It's the same scenario this year too.

So, it's simply a case of Merc PU getting hot and teams having to manage that by cutting back on deployment.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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EJ22B wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 16:27
It's a Merc engine limitation. Last year, if anyone listened to radios of Albon, Vettel, Lewis and George you will have seen deployment being a common complain by those drivers during the middle of the race.

Albon's engineer told him several times because of PU being hot they have to turn down the deployment. It's the same scenario this year too.

So, it's simply a case of Merc PU getting hot and teams having to manage that by cutting back on deployment.
This is exactly what I suspected.
A lion must kill its prey.

KimiRai
KimiRai
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Joined: 10 Aug 2022, 20:08

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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Aston Martin will begin demolition of the old former Jordan factory in order to construct building nº2.

Image

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diffuser
236
Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 16:28
EJ22B wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 16:27
It's a Merc engine limitation. Last year, if anyone listened to radios of Albon, Vettel, Lewis and George you will have seen deployment being a common complain by those drivers during the middle of the race.

Albon's engineer told him several times because of PU being hot they have to turn down the deployment. It's the same scenario this year too.

So, it's simply a case of Merc PU getting hot and teams having to manage that by cutting back on deployment.
This is exactly what I suspected.
That wouldn't match what I saw in the data. They were faster, in comparison to Norris in the first and last sectors after the change. There was a big gap before.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
07 Jul 2023, 02:29
AR3-GP wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 16:28
EJ22B wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 16:27
It's a Merc engine limitation. Last year, if anyone listened to radios of Albon, Vettel, Lewis and George you will have seen deployment being a common complain by those drivers during the middle of the race.

Albon's engineer told him several times because of PU being hot they have to turn down the deployment. It's the same scenario this year too.

So, it's simply a case of Merc PU getting hot and teams having to manage that by cutting back on deployment.
This is exactly what I suspected.
That wouldn't match what I saw in the data. They were faster, in comparison to Norris in the first and last sectors after the change. There was a big gap before.
Why would they be in "the wrong mode" all race. It's more likely deliberate.
A lion must kill its prey.

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diffuser
236
Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
07 Jul 2023, 02:33
diffuser wrote:
07 Jul 2023, 02:29
AR3-GP wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 16:28


This is exactly what I suspected.
That wouldn't match what I saw in the data. They were faster, in comparison to Norris in the first and last sectors after the change. There was a big gap before.
Why would they be in "the wrong mode" all race. It's more likely deliberate.
No idea.

EJ22B
EJ22B
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Joined: 29 May 2022, 10:04

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
07 Jul 2023, 02:29
AR3-GP wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 16:28
EJ22B wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 16:27
It's a Merc engine limitation. Last year, if anyone listened to radios of Albon, Vettel, Lewis and George you will have seen deployment being a common complain by those drivers during the middle of the race.

Albon's engineer told him several times because of PU being hot they have to turn down the deployment. It's the same scenario this year too.

So, it's simply a case of Merc PU getting hot and teams having to manage that by cutting back on deployment.
This is exactly what I suspected.
That wouldn't match what I saw in the data. They were faster, in comparison to Norris in the first and last sectors after the change. There was a big gap before.
McLaren has some of the best cooling technology on their car. They have a exclusive contract with Marelli to supply them with the latest heat exchangers tech among other stuff. This exclusive deal also the reason why they can't run Merc's reaction engine water intercooler and have to rely on air to air intercoolers supplied by Marelli.

It shouldn't be a surprise that they don't suffer from these cooling issues as much Williams, Mercedes and Aston.

Aston and Williams on the other hand use offshelf PWR cores and then modify and build them to suit their cooling architecture. Don't know anything about the supplier of Merc but it's very much possible they might be building their own coolers from the ground up.

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Zynerji
110
Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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EJ22B wrote:
07 Jul 2023, 06:07
diffuser wrote:
07 Jul 2023, 02:29
AR3-GP wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 16:28


This is exactly what I suspected.
That wouldn't match what I saw in the data. They were faster, in comparison to Norris in the first and last sectors after the change. There was a big gap before.
McLaren has some of the best cooling technology on their car. They have a exclusive contract with Marelli to supply them with the latest heat exchangers tech among other stuff. This exclusive deal also the reason why they can't run Merc's reaction engine water intercooler and have to rely on air to air intercoolers supplied by Marelli.

It shouldn't be a surprise that they don't suffer from these cooling issues as much Williams, Mercedes and Aston.

Aston and Williams on the other hand use offshelf PWR cores and then modify and build them to suit their cooling architecture. Don't know anything about the supplier of Merc but it's very much possible they might be building their own coolers from the ground up.
I imagine most coolers are 3d printed with various infill patterns. I'd also imagine that the filters on the engine are similar, but with micropores.

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peewon
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 03:11

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
07 Jul 2023, 02:29
AR3-GP wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 16:28
EJ22B wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 16:27
It's a Merc engine limitation. Last year, if anyone listened to radios of Albon, Vettel, Lewis and George you will have seen deployment being a common complain by those drivers during the middle of the race.

Albon's engineer told him several times because of PU being hot they have to turn down the deployment. It's the same scenario this year too.

So, it's simply a case of Merc PU getting hot and teams having to manage that by cutting back on deployment.
This is exactly what I suspected.
That wouldn't match what I saw in the data. They were faster, in comparison to Norris in the first and last sectors after the change. There was a big gap before.
I just saw the timings. Alonso was still a couple tenths slower than Leclerc in the last few laps. Leclerc himself had no reason to push. Norris dropped off his pace severely in the last 5-6 laps. He was lapping in the mid 1:09s before and dropped to late 1:09s and 1:10 while Alonso moved to early 1:09s. I would say Norris was cruising. At no point was Alonso lapping faster than Norris' best times. They might be on par with Mclaren with pace and better on tyres but definitely not much faster as those last few laps might indicate.

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Jambier
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Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 11:02
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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Any upgrades for Silverstone?

Mercedes is bringing new parts again and again.

It seems that Aston is quite slow on that

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diffuser
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Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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peewon wrote:
07 Jul 2023, 06:40
diffuser wrote:
07 Jul 2023, 02:29
AR3-GP wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 16:28


This is exactly what I suspected.
That wouldn't match what I saw in the data. They were faster, in comparison to Norris in the first and last sectors after the change. There was a big gap before.
I just saw the timings. Alonso was still a couple tenths slower than Leclerc in the last few laps. Leclerc himself had no reason to push. Norris dropped off his pace severely in the last 5-6 laps. He was lapping in the mid 1:09s before and dropped to late 1:09s and 1:10 while Alonso moved to early 1:09s. I would say Norris was cruising. At no point was Alonso lapping faster than Norris' best times. They might be on par with Mclaren with pace and better on tyres but definitely not much faster as those last few laps might indicate.
Norris said he was hussling (and being asked to by McLaren) to get within 5 seconds of Sainz(because of penalty possibilities to Sainz and himself).

Also, I wasn't talking about overall lap time. I was talking specifically about the first and last sectors. That the gap in time in those sectors to what Norris had been doing improved AFTER the change in deployment.

-wkst-
-wkst-
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Joined: 29 Jan 2016, 21:55
Location: Austria

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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I wonder what they are testing. Aero kit on ALO's car with the 2022 launch spec rear wing.

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organic
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Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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-wkst- wrote:
07 Jul 2023, 13:46
I wonder what they are testing. Aero kit on ALO's car with the 2022 launch spec rear wing.
Maybe seeing the effect of new pirelli front tyres?

-wkst-
-wkst-
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Joined: 29 Jan 2016, 21:55
Location: Austria

Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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organic wrote:
07 Jul 2023, 13:48
-wkst- wrote:
07 Jul 2023, 13:46
I wonder what they are testing. Aero kit on ALO's car with the 2022 launch spec rear wing.
Maybe seeing the effect of new pirelli front tyres?
Maybe, maybe they are not happy with correlation. They won't drive it anymore however, they switched to a single pylon wing according to the live feed.

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peewon
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Re: 2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
07 Jul 2023, 09:19
peewon wrote:
07 Jul 2023, 06:40
diffuser wrote:
07 Jul 2023, 02:29


That wouldn't match what I saw in the data. They were faster, in comparison to Norris in the first and last sectors after the change. There was a big gap before.
I just saw the timings. Alonso was still a couple tenths slower than Leclerc in the last few laps. Leclerc himself had no reason to push. Norris dropped off his pace severely in the last 5-6 laps. He was lapping in the mid 1:09s before and dropped to late 1:09s and 1:10 while Alonso moved to early 1:09s. I would say Norris was cruising. At no point was Alonso lapping faster than Norris' best times. They might be on par with Mclaren with pace and better on tyres but definitely not much faster as those last few laps might indicate.
Norris said he was hussling (and being asked to by McLaren) to get within 5 seconds of Sainz(because of penalty possibilities to Sainz and himself).

Also, I wasn't talking about overall lap time. I was talking specifically about the first and last sectors. That the gap in time in those sectors to what Norris had been doing improved AFTER the change in deployment.
Yeah you're right. Rechecked for a few more laps and Alonso was definitely faster in the last few laps. But Lando was also slower. Not sure about the sector times. AM were definitely faster in the final 5-10 laps of each stint. Still such a short sample, could be anything. Maybe lift and coast for Lando? Any idea about the throttle trace data?