Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[PlatinumZealot]

Well, the issue is that you are dealing with safety.

60kph would be even safer and 40kph safer yet.

I think the greatest risk is the front jack man. Using on-board jacks would eliminate that risk regardless of speed.

Someone still has to hook up an airline for pneumatic jacks. Getting run over is a risk you're willing to take, it's part of the job. Of course we should do everything to ensure safety, but let's not kid ourselves, part of the appeal of the sport is the danger.

a standard on-board compressor can do the trick.

[PlatinumZealot]

Oh I've seen what the odd flying wheel barreling down the pits can do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvG1j8ruxPM

And no, I couldn't find a more obnoxious video.

I thought you said the odd flywheel there for a minute. Yikes!

[GoranF1]

Latest interview whit Arai.
http://en.f1i.com/magazine/38602-honda- ... -2016.html

Are you going to change the layout of the V to fit a bigger turbo?
“Not such a big change. Still a compact layout, but I know that we need a bigger size of turbocharger. So keeping the concept but changing the inside of the chamber or making any part smaller is a big target.”

Was the size the biggest problem of making the turbo efficient or were there other problems as well?
“The size led to the inefficiency. The size is small so the engine needed high pressure air. So that means the high rotation - 120,000rpm - is the limitation.”

Mercedes had a new fuel which helped improve performance when it updated its power unit in Monza. How closely are you working with Mobil1 to improve performance?
“Very closely. We discuss with Mobil1 directly. Of course it is one of the big partners but from the R&D side - our R&D and Mobil1’s R&D - we have very big discussions. They made many kinds of fuel which we tested many times to realise what is the best way and the best solution. Day-by-day, every week, every month, we keep doing that.”

[godlameroso]

So maybe their turbo concept could have worked if it ran at 160k rpm?

[hemichromis]

Arai says the concept is fixed would he mean just the concept of a very small engine with the turbo in the VEE or is he saying that the engine is finished?

[Wazari]

Arai says the concept is fixed would he mean just the concept of a very small engine with the turbo in the VEE or is he saying that the engine is finished?

Knowing how Arai-san speaks in Japanese, I'm pretty sure what he is saying that the shortfalls that came with the small package have been resolved on the drawing board and built. Now it's a matter of seeing how reliable all these new pieces are. These translators are just awful.

[taperoo2k]

Arai says the concept is fixed would he mean just the concept of a very small engine with the turbo in the VEE or is he saying that the engine is finished?

Knowing how Arai-san speaks in Japanese, I'm pretty sure what he is saying that the shortfalls that came with the small package have been resolved on the drawing board and built. Now it's a matter of seeing how reliable all these new pieces are. These translators are just awful.

Wouldn't be surprised if they merely passed the interview through google translate.
I'm not expecting Honda to have made any significant changes to the size of the PU given McLaren's chassis demands, rather rejigged, the internal layout to accommodate redesigned parts. Will be interesting to compare the first day of testing with last year's on the PU's reliability. If they've got that nailed down, then it's time to turn attention to the power/speed of the new PU with the MP4-31 over the course of the winter testing period. Same reliability woes ? Here we go again.

[godlameroso]

Their reliability improved throughout the year, they did pretty good considering they were trying to reinforce a ticking time bomb. I'm sure the new power unit will have much better reliability out of the box, and come the first test, I seriously doubt they're going to be 3 seconds behind Mercedes. We'll see what happens this year, look for fast laps set on medium or soft compounds, since that will give an approximate representation of what they'll be able to do in the race. For the record, the fastest time Mercedes did with the medium tire, which was the option tire in the race was a 1:24.321, which is only .3 faster than pole with a 1:24.681, and the year before pole was a 1:25.232. This year they'll be allowed to use the soft tires as well so I'm guessing pole is going to be in the mid to low 23's. If Mclaren can hit a mid 23 with the soft tire they'll be in pretty good shape.

[PlatinumZealot]

Latest interview whit Arai.
http://en.f1i.com/magazine/38602-honda- ... -2016.html

Are you going to change the layout of the V to fit a bigger turbo?
“Not such a big change. Still a compact layout, but I know that we need a bigger size of turbocharger. So keeping the concept but changing the inside of the chamber or making any part smaller is a big target.”

Was the size the biggest problem of making the turbo efficient or were there other problems as well?
“The size led to the inefficiency. The size is small so the engine needed high pressure air. So that means the high rotation - 120,000rpm - is the limitation.”

Mercedes had a new fuel which helped improve performance when it updated its power unit in Monza. How closely are you working with Mobil1 to improve performance?
“Very closely. We discuss with Mobil1 directly. Of course it is one of the big partners but from the R&D side - our R&D and Mobil1’s R&D - we have very big discussions. They made many kinds of fuel which we tested many times to realise what is the best way and the best solution. Day-by-day, every week, every month, we keep doing that.”

By the translation it sound like they can squeeze bigger compressor and turbine wheels in without altering the V of the engine too much. Japanese are very good at compact machine designs. For example, Mitsubishi and IHI turbos are well know for their small size. (wonder which brand honda uses?)

[GoranF1]

Latest interview whit Arai.
http://en.f1i.com/magazine/38602-honda- ... -2016.html

Are you going to change the layout of the V to fit a bigger turbo?
“Not such a big change. Still a compact layout, but I know that we need a bigger size of turbocharger. So keeping the concept but changing the inside of the chamber or making any part smaller is a big target.”

Was the size the biggest problem of making the turbo efficient or were there other problems as well?
“The size led to the inefficiency. The size is small so the engine needed high pressure air. So that means the high rotation - 120,000rpm - is the limitation.”

Mercedes had a new fuel which helped improve performance when it updated its power unit in Monza. How closely are you working with Mobil1 to improve performance?
“Very closely. We discuss with Mobil1 directly. Of course it is one of the big partners but from the R&D side - our R&D and Mobil1’s R&D - we have very big discussions. They made many kinds of fuel which we tested many times to realise what is the best way and the best solution. Day-by-day, every week, every month, we keep doing that.”

By the translation it sound like they can squeeze bigger compressor and turbine wheels in without altering the V of the engine too much. Japanese are very good at compact machine designs. For example, Mitsubishi and IHI turbos are well know for their small size. (wonder which brand honda uses?)

I agree,but also if that is true, it sounds like not so big change that they coudnt do it last year.....i somehow dont belive him,i think they will change layout and put compressor in front.

[hemichromis]

Didn't everyone also believe that Renault and Ferrari would put the compressor at the front for 2015?

I doubt Honda will move the compressor from the Vee but they are making it bigger.

[godlameroso]

What else could they do to fit a bigger compressor other than reworking the compressor cavity, or altering the cylinder heads? Maybe downsizing the MGUH while making it more powerful as well? The turbine doesn't matter because it's not within the V

[PlatinumZealot]

We assumed that as well. But we also discussed the changes that would be required to significantly increase the size of the compressor. On of those changes was modifying the valley of the block.

[Wazari]

I think I have mentioned before that you don't have to increase the size of the compressor housing to make significant changes to the compressor's characteristics. The compressor "wheel" design plays a vital role to how much "push" the turbocharger has. However when you make changes to the wheel, you have make sure the turbine is up to the task of "powering" the compressor to get the desired velocity, volume of compressed of air which isn't too difficult a challenge in itself. Now add in the component of the MGU-H which is coupled to the turbocharger and having to power the unit while in generating mode without compromising the amount of forced air into the ICE poses a big challenge. So I don't believe you have to increase the space at least in terms of radius of the compressor housing to make significant changes to make the compressor more "powerful".

[pgfpro]

I think I have mentioned before that you don't have to increase the size of the compressor housing to make significant changes to the compressor's characteristics. The compressor "wheel" design plays a vital role to how much "push" the turbocharger has. However when you make changes to the wheel, you have make sure the turbine is up to the task of "powering" the compressor to get the desired velocity, volume of compressed of air which isn't too difficult a challenge in itself. Now add in the component of the MGU-H which is coupled to the turbocharger and having to power the unit while in generating mode without compromising the amount of forced air into the ICE poses a big challenge. So I don't believe you have to increase the space at least in terms of radius of the compressor housing to make significant changes to make the compressor more "powerful".

Very true Wazari.
For example this turbo housing has three different comp wheels available.

FP Green 52mm/73mm flows 52lbs/min
FP Red 54mm/76mm flows 61lbs/min
Fp Black 59mm/82mm flows 71lbs/min