German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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Marty has really a good spirit to it almost like Wattie in the good ol days...

ell66
ell66
2
Joined: 30 Jun 2010, 13:05

Re: German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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myurr wrote:
Shrieker wrote:To the comments regarding Webber's performance in China I agree to some extent. But like Mandrake said back then Red Bull were A LOT faster than the rest of the field than they are now. Vettel had lost his radio and ran on squished tyres for a very long time so no fair comparision in there imho.

About Vettel being unable to slice through the field. If memory serves me right, we never had a situation where Vettel fell back by mishap (and without car damage) and had to just climb back. Had he been in Webber's shoes in China could he have pulled it off ? I have no doubts. Do remember that Webber didn't pass 5 Hamilton's and 6 Alonso's on track there.


@Hampusa,

Not a fighter with sharp teeth he is maybe, but with todays point scoring system you'd want a calm and collected driver in the cockpit rather than an all out attacking one, sadly. Sadly, because the ones who do attack are the ones who create excitement. Having said that, it's worth noting that had Lewis refrained from sticking his nose along Massa's rear wheel in Monza last year, he'd be a double world champion by now. IMHO Vettel wouldn't have done that. Now there's an arguement 8)
In Germany Vettel fell back by mishap and without car damage. He spun in the first stint and flat spotted the tyres which lost him 1 - 2 seconds a lap for the remainder of that stint, and the rear brakes overheated which contributed to the poor pace at that point. From the second stint onwards though the brakes were fine and he had new tyres, however he was unable to make much impression on track. He failed to overtake Massa, made another mistake on the one time he got close in the DRS zone and overshot the corner, and had to rely on his pit crew to get past.
and he got cleanly passed by alonso in the first few laps, his limitations were shown yesterday.

RB7ate9
RB7ate9
2
Joined: 13 Jul 2011, 03:03

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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@BreezyRacer: I have the exact same question EVERY RACE!

What it could be is that Webber never got a chance to really test the car in race conditions (i.e. race stop-starts) with the Perelli tires. What would be ideal is that he would get a chance to practice with the RB7 (tricky clutch?) on a track in Milton Keynes if there is one. However, as my colleague pointed out during the German GP, that's mid-season testing - which is illegal this season.

This would explain his qualifying pace (more based on handling of the car at speed) and the poor race starts (more of a stop-start practice one wouldn't do Fridays and Saturday mornings). I don't know how accurate a simulator may be with stop-starts.

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Poleman
1
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 19:25

Re: German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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Webber vs Hamilton qualifying runs:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu285CW4prU[/youtube]

myurr
myurr
9
Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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Wonder if it's just a reflection of Webber's preferred mechanical setup.

Mandrake
Mandrake
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Joined: 31 May 2010, 01:31

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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myurr wrote:Wonder if it's just a reflection of Webber's preferred mechanical setup.
You can hear the revs fall rapidly in the onboard shots....he just doesn't know / isn't able to start that RB7 quickly....

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PlatinumZealot
559
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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Mandrake wrote:
In danger of running too much offtopic: In Silverstone the Ferrari was not beatable, fact! Even with a perfect pit stop the Ferrari went berzerk in S2.
This is bacause the Ferrari was almost equal (a bit slower) with the RedBull. This is Alonso's "6 tenths" in it's glory.

It's not that the Ferrari was faster just over one race. Everything has a transition. Whenever the Ferrari gets faster you will see Alonso scoring Pole positions.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

Racing Green in 2028

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djos
113
Joined: 19 May 2006, 06:09
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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Mandrake wrote:
myurr wrote:Wonder if it's just a reflection of Webber's preferred mechanical setup.
You can hear the revs fall rapidly in the onboard shots....he just doesn't know / isn't able to start that RB7 quickly....
That sounded to me like the clutch was starting to drag which is nothing to do with the driver - the BBC boys said basically the same thing when it was replayed.
"In downforce we trust"

munudeges
munudeges
-14
Joined: 10 Jun 2011, 17:08

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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djos wrote:That sounded to me like the clutch was starting to drag which is nothing to do with the driver - the BBC boys said basically the same thing when it was replayed.
Only the team will know whether he's not doing something he should be, but his starts haven't been as good as those around him for some time now.

archiebald
archiebald
0
Joined: 10 Feb 2011, 00:18

Re: German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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Finally just watched it and what a great race!!!

Hamilton was awesome - he was pretty much on the edge for the whole race and really had to fight to keep in touch while in second. Loved his duelling with Webber. Webber's overtake was like putting a match to gunpowder and boy, did Lewis explode. Fantastic move on Webber in turn 2 - Not coming round the outside of me pally boy!! Then his move round the outside of Alonso in the same place was sublime.

Alonso was also very good, made Hamilton work really hard.

Both Lewie and Fred were outdriving their cars IMO.

Webber lost the race from the startline, his start just lost him confidence and he never quite got to 100% of his potential today.

Massa drove very well, not up to Fred's standards but a good solid drive.

Vettel just reinforced the fact that he cannot "race". Sure he can drive very, very fast but he is not intelligent enough, nor does he have the balls to overtake. We saw the same thing against Hamilton at Silvertone, even when in a much faster car, he simply doesn't have the moves to get past anyone. Whereas at Silverstone Lewis put that fantastic move on Alonso going into Copse on slicks on the wet line.

Look at Hamilton, Alonso, Button, Schumacher, Kobayashi et al. (even Webber) These guys are putting overtakes together 2 or 3 corners before they actually make the passing move. They think it through in their heads over a couple of laps then throw a dummy or two and pounce. Whereas Vettel just sits there with his thumb up his (no need to mention) and hopes that his car is faster somewhere on the track.

Honestly, when it comes to overtaking, those guys I mentioned are like gourmet chefs whereas Vettel can barely boil a bag of rice.

Other mentions, great drive by Sutil, bad luck for Jenson, he looked like he was just waking up when the car failed.

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Poleman
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 19:25

Re: German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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I wanted to ask this...Is it me or i get the impression that Hamilton had lifted coz of the yellow flags at the chicane and Webber not,thus he was alongside to Lewis?Or actually Hamilton slowed a down a bit too much?I recall a radio from/to the time at the incident.

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Poleman
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Re: German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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wesley123
wesley123
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Re: German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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Poleman wrote:I wanted to ask this...Is it me or i get the impression that Hamilton had lifted coz of the yellow flags at the chicane and Webber not,thus he was alongside to Lewis?Or actually Hamilton slowed a down a bit too much?I recall a radio from/to the time at the incident.
Indeed, I thought at that moment it was still a yellow flag in that area, making the overtake actually illegal.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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Poleman
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 19:25

Re: German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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wesley123 wrote:
Poleman wrote:I wanted to ask this...Is it me or i get the impression that Hamilton had lifted coz of the yellow flags at the chicane and Webber not,thus he was alongside to Lewis?Or actually Hamilton slowed a down a bit too much?I recall a radio from/to the time at the incident.
Indeed, I thought at that moment it was still a yellow flag in that area, making the overtake actually illegal.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev0EfUe3_Ic[/youtube]

archiebald
archiebald
0
Joined: 10 Feb 2011, 00:18

Re: German GP 2011 - Nürburgring

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There were definitely yellows at the chicane where Webber closed up on Lewis. However, he did not overtake until after the chicane where there may have been a green flag (can't see in that video).

So the overtake looked okay to me, only question would be speed relative to their previous laps.

I suspect that Lewis was very cautious not wishing to have any penalties thrown at him again and Webber took advantage.