Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

[izzy]

Hmm, they didn't have this the previous years, not this often atleast so it might survive Melbourne, but I don't think it'll manage the first 7-8races without any issues. Hope to be proven wrong though!

ps: I don't like how Claire Williams is acting like an unprofessional goat. Already bitching about Mercedes (while it was super reliable the previous 6years) which is currently the only thing that gives Williams a bit of speed. She should better focus on running the team better or finding a decent successor as she has proven year in year out that she doesn't have what it takes to run a team...

what she's quoted on motorsport.com isn't 'bitching' (you know that's sexist don't you? )

"We had some engine problems which have been a little frustrating," Williams said. "We're on our third engine issue now, which has obviously cost us quite a lot of track time, which is unfortunate.

"I suppose it is what can happen in testing, and at least it's not our issue that something has gone wrong with the car.
There were some other issues last week. The one on Friday, [Mercedes is] still investigating, so you should talk to them about that," Williams said.

"I don't think that they've found the problem. I think there was an issue with the MGU-H on the Thursday night one. There was a sensor issue on Friday morning that obviously was our issue. That put us off the track for probably half an hour, something like that. That's the only issue that we've had."

it obviously is frustrating to lose track time with only 6 days this year, she's Frank's daughter, what kind of girlie sweetness were you expecting?

[Just_a_fan]

what she's quoted on motorsport.com isn't 'bitching' (you know that's sexist don't you? )

No it isn't. Or is it only sexist because she's a woman? If a driver "bitches" is that still sexist?

[De Jokke]

She said something in the lines of: it's an oil leak, that's not our fault! That's mercedes' fault.
Now that's bitching!
And no it's not sexist, even the race driver do: Grosjean for example does it a lot!

[De Jokke]

Several issues going on in that power unit of Merc:

https://racing-elite.com/2020/02/27/wil ... e-problem/

oil leaks, mgu-h, …(sensors and electrics(mgu-k) if you count the bottas problems as well)

[izzy]

She said something in the lines of: it's an oil leak, that's not our fault! That's mercedes' fault.
Now that's bitching!
And no it's not sexist, even the race driver do: Grosjean for example does it a lot!

the worst i've seen is "Everyone is a little upset about the problems, because we only have six days of testing and a busy program". no exclamation marks, it's all nice So a link to your paraphrase would be good, so we don't think your gendered insult is indicating a double standard or anything

cos from what i've seen i don't think Ola or Toto are going to be getting their panties in a twist over what she said

[izzy]

No it isn't. Or is it only sexist because she's a woman? If a driver "bitches" is that still sexist?

it is totally an everyday kind of sexism (it's the person using it not the one they're talking about, as it implies that the behaviour is feminine) and quite trivial normally, but as it was talking about the only female F1 boss it had context. So it did invite the question whether a male TP saying those mild things would've provoked the same criticism, and thus, on topic, whether HPP might be getting actual critical complaints about its hardware and software, from their customers

cos according to AMuS when Nicholas lost his oil pressure the software was too slow to save the engine. i think often teams still have to pay for the engine when it blows up, so i can imagine if it'd been say, Franz, he'd have had more and ruder things to say about it, and then would he have been accused of bitching?

Another way F1 is relevant!

[GhostF1]

The PU will be bulletproof come Melbourne, just like it has always been.

Apart from the beginning of 2014, I have to add. Still the most reliable by far though!

Is it though? They had a multitude of issues last year across the teams.. Bottas used 5 or 6 engines by the end of the season, Racing Point used 5 a piece, Williams 4 a piece. I recall Spa being a pretty bad day for Merc with RP and Williams going bang on the same day. Thermal issues forcing restricted performance and dwindling results, Bottas fitted a new spec engine in Abu Dhabi (apparently a 2020 mule) and it let go in practice and he had to take another new one. (I'm also aware of the irony it has looked like that and yet they still won the championship).

My concern is their reliability, which is usually impeccable, is dwindling and it's been evident since Cowell said before Australia last year that they've had to go aggressive (and now again this year) and they've been having more and more on track issues since. But it's sort of flying under the radar for some reason, their failures don't get taken seriously, it's like they're riding a hype wave because they have been regarded as the pinnacle engine for so long, people shrug off issues but they are still there.
There was only one manufacturer last year that had zero on track failures, and it's the unpopular choice...

[GPR-A]

The PU will be bulletproof come Melbourne, just like it has always been.

Apart from the beginning of 2014, I have to add. Still the most reliable by far though!

Is it though? They had a multitude of issues last year across the teams.. Bottas used 5 or 6 engines by the end of the season, Racing Point used 5 a piece, Williams 4 a piece. I recall Spa being a pretty bad day for Merc with RP and Williams going bang on the same day. Thermal issues forcing restricted performance and dwindling results, Bottas fitted a new spec engine in Abu Dhabi (apparently a 2020 mule) and it let go in practice and he had to take another new one. (I'm also aware of the irony it has looked like that and yet they still won the championship).

My concern is their reliability, which is usually impeccable, is dwindling and it's been evident since Cowell said before Australia last year that they've had to go aggressive (and now again this year) and they've been having more and more on track issues since. But it's sort of flying under the radar for some reason, their failures don't get taken seriously, it's like they're riding a hype wave because they have been regarded as the pinnacle engine for so long, people shrug off issues but they are still there.
There was only one manufacturer last year that had zero on track failures, and it's the unpopular choice...

Hype? It's called being champions. No point having a reliable PU but can't win championships. What matters is, how any failure for them was terminal and how much did that cost them. Almost none. To their credit, The man who won the championship last year, did so with 3 engines, while engaging in dog fight in many races. It's part of the competition that they have to go aggressive and sometimes not everything goes to their liking. If there is one team that has been solving problems, minimizing the impact of those problems, it's them.

[GhostF1]

Apart from the beginning of 2014, I have to add. Still the most reliable by far though!

Is it though? They had a multitude of issues last year across the teams.. Bottas used 5 or 6 engines by the end of the season, Racing Point used 5 a piece, Williams 4 a piece. I recall Spa being a pretty bad day for Merc with RP and Williams going bang on the same day. Thermal issues forcing restricted performance and dwindling results, Bottas fitted a new spec engine in Abu Dhabi (apparently a 2020 mule) and it let go in practice and he had to take another new one. (I'm also aware of the irony it has looked like that and yet they still won the championship).

My concern is their reliability, which is usually impeccable, is dwindling and it's been evident since Cowell said before Australia last year that they've had to go aggressive (and now again this year) and they've been having more and more on track issues since. But it's sort of flying under the radar for some reason, their failures don't get taken seriously, it's like they're riding a hype wave because they have been regarded as the pinnacle engine for so long, people shrug off issues but they are still there.
There was only one manufacturer last year that had zero on track failures, and it's the unpopular choice...

Hype? It's called being champions. No point having a reliable PU but can't win championships. What matters is, how any failure for them was terminal and how much did that cost them. Almost none. To their credit, The man who won the championship last year, did so with 3 engines, while engaging in dog fight in many races. It's part of the competition that they have to go aggressive and sometimes not everything goes to their liking. If there is one team that has been solving problems, minimizing the impact of those problems, it's them.

God...
I'm not taking anything away from them being champions. The discussion on this thread is about the power unit and more specifically, about their more frequent reliability woe's across all supplied teams, not about the morality of being champions and showing respect. I have a huge amount for them and that shouldn't be questioned just because we are openly discussing some PU issues.. Anyway back to the technical side.

I don't know what you mean about terminal failure and almost none? Mercedes' PU's had several terminal failures on track last year across all teams and it was also quite thermally affected, at their own admission as well and is something they need to get on top of. This is not a dig, we are discussing facts, they've done brilliant work, however we are seeing them be a little more unstable now they are pushing the boundaries (we are talking PU here, just to clarify).
And maybe hype was the wrong word, but it is true they do fly under the radar if they encounter issues, e.g compare to Honda, if you look at the data, they were highly impressive last year reliability wise. Not one issue on track with both Red Bulls using only 4 PU's, and used hard (a 5th ICE was taken to add to the pool when they had that opportunity). One could put up a pretty good argument that Honda's reliability was no worse than Merc or Ferrari but if one thing happens on track they absolutely slaughtered in the press... still, because of 2017 stigma. Not true for Merc, as evidenced last year with plenty of issues and no one batted an eyelid, and now testing is looking less than ideal. That's all I was getting at..
Apparently I need to clarify this, my aim is discussion, not a dig..

Anyway, who knows, maybe it's intended remote PU detonation, taking sandbagging to the next level

[Bill]

Mercedes are struggling with oil consumption (burning) issues.

[maxxer]

So back to the topic does williams use petronas fuel and lubrication also?

[saviour stivala]

So back to the topic does williams use petronas fuel and lubrication also?

Williams uses the same hardware, software, fuel and oil as Mercedes do as does the other customer team.

[Mr.G]

Any ideas about the smoke puffs from all mercedes engines today? It happened about 5 times since the beginning of today testing...

[saviour stivala]

Any ideas about the smoke puffs from all mercedes engines today? It happened about 5 times since the beginning of today testing...

In fact I was going to ask this morning, are Mercedes power unites not using oil control rings?.

[SiLo]

It's not the first time Merc engines have had issues in testing. I'll worry when we get to Oz and the team say they are running the engine detuned.