Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

[godlameroso]

Whatever the purpose for burning oil, Mercedes exploited this to the point of taking an early power unit to avoid the lower oil burning requirement.

Whether burning oil is a result of going more extreme on piston rings, or turbo seals which don't seal well at low RPM's, or if they're burning oil for extra power is something we will never know, but we cannot deny what happened in 2018. You noticed how Mercedes engine basically didn't improve from 2018 to 2019, and they have to take extreme measures to stay ahead of Ferrari, and now Honda. The most obvious variable was the lower oil burning requirement, so I don't hold it against people to say Mercedes was exploiting it for gain.

I never suggested Mercedes hadn't exploited oil burning, I believe they have. My question was how this is related to their recent failures in testing.

If I had to guess, the cylinder head is harder to lubricate than the bottom end. My guess is something to do with the head.

[saviour stivala]

Whatever the purpose for burning oil, Mercedes exploited this to the point of taking an early power unit to avoid the lower oil burning requirement.

Whether burning oil is a result of going more extreme on piston rings, or turbo seals which don't seal well at low RPM's, or if they're burning oil for extra power is something we will never know, but we cannot deny what happened in 2018. You noticed how Mercedes engine basically didn't improve from 2018 to 2019, and they have to take extreme measures to stay ahead of Ferrari, and now Honda. The most obvious variable was the lower oil burning requirement, so I don't hold it against people to say Mercedes was exploiting it for gain.

I never suggested Mercedes hadn't exploited oil burning, I believe they have. My question was how this is related to their recent failures in testing.

If I had to guess, the cylinder head is harder to lubricate than the bottom end. My guess is something to do with the head.

Why is it harder to lubricate the cylinder head (chamber formed by the top part of the head and the valve cover were the camshafts rotate)?. What have lubricating the cylinder head have to do with burning oil inside the combustion chambers?. There is no way for oil to leak through the valve-guides, because if it does so will the compressed gas which replaces the wire valve springs and is at a much higher pressure than the oil pressure.

[godlameroso]

"My question was how this is related to their recent failures in testing."

Sorry I was addressing this comment, regarding Mercedes oil pressure issues. I guess it has to do with cylinder head/camshaft lubrication. The cams are the hardest part to lubricate on an engine.

[saviour stivala]

"My question was how this is related to their recent failures in testing."

Sorry I was addressing this comment, regarding Mercedes oil pressure issues. I guess it has to do with cylinder head/camshaft lubrication. The cams are the hardest part to lubricate on an engine.

"The cams (not the heads) are the hardest part to lubricate on an engine" but still you don't say why.

[godlameroso]

Because it's the last part of the rotating assembly to receive oil.

[PlatinumZealot]

The shut off the engine because of some sort if lubrication system alarm. That's all we know.

It could be low pressure, too high a pressure, oil consumption even. Maybe the engine shut down to prevent evidence of wrong doing? Haha

[godlameroso]

If an aluminum cam journal goes against a steel camshaft and both are subjected to excessive heat, which one is going to give way first? Cams are steel per the regulations.

[dren]

The shut off the engine because of some sort if lubrication system alarm. That's all we know.

It could be low pressure, too high a pressure, oil consumption even. Maybe the engine shut down to prevent evidence of wrong doing? Haha

The exhaust bearings lost oil pressure.

[saviour stivala]

The shut off the engine because of some sort if lubrication system alarm. That's all we know.

It could be low pressure, too high a pressure, oil consumption even. Maybe the engine shut down to prevent evidence of wrong doing? Haha

The exhaust bearings lost oil pressure.

Meaning the exhaust camshaft bearings lost oil pressure?.

[Xwang]

I never suggested Mercedes hadn't exploited oil burning, I believe they have. My question was how this is related to their recent failures in testing.

If I had to guess, the cylinder head is harder to lubricate than the bottom end. My guess is something to do with the head.

Why is it harder to lubricate the cylinder head (chamber formed by the top part of the head and the valve cover were the camshafts rotate)?. What have lubricating the cylinder head have to do with burning oil inside the combustion chambers?. There is no way for oil to leak through the valve-guides, because if it does so will the compressed gas which replaces the wire valve springs and is at a much higher pressure than the oil pressure.

Just an idea, maybe silly, but what if the compressed air used to move valves is in reality an air/oil moisture (like this ones https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... FVQn2AvAmW) which leaks through the valve guides?

[dren]

The shut off the engine because of some sort if lubrication system alarm. That's all we know.

It could be low pressure, too high a pressure, oil consumption even. Maybe the engine shut down to prevent evidence of wrong doing? Haha

The exhaust bearings lost oil pressure.

Meaning the exhaust camshaft bearings lost oil pressure?.

Poor attempt at a joke.

[saviour stivala]

If I had to guess, the cylinder head is harder to lubricate than the bottom end. My guess is something to do with the head.

Why is it harder to lubricate the cylinder head (chamber formed by the top part of the head and the valve cover were the camshafts rotate)?. What have lubricating the cylinder head have to do with burning oil inside the combustion chambers?. There is no way for oil to leak through the valve-guides, because if it does so will the compressed gas which replaces the wire valve springs and is at a much higher pressure than the oil pressure.

Just an idea, maybe silly, but what if the compressed air used to move valves is in reality an air/oil moisture (like this ones https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... FVQn2AvAmW) which leaks through the valve guides?

“What if the compressed air used to move the valves is in realty an air/oil moisture?”. What deference does it make if oil moisture is added to the air pressure acting as a spring, if there is a leak through the valve guide seal the air pressure acting as a spring will leak with it (the air/oil moisture). In short there cannot be any leak at the valve guides, the only place this said air/oil moisture can get into the combustion chamber.

[bosyber]

...

Mercedes plays interesting games, they say they weren't able to use the full potential of last year's engine due to inadequate cooling, yet they design an engine which is made to run hotter, which I fear will lead to the same excuse of not being able to use the full potential of the engine. Better than admitting they've been caught by Honda.

Not having much against someone saying Mercedes were burning oil - no clear proof, but seems very likely they did it first, though seemed less all-in than Ferrari (so had less to lose from oil burning being limited, one would think).

But the quoted part is fishy (I am not an expert, but ...) - the point of running the engine hotter is that it needs less cooling to keep it within operating range, so that is (part of) solving the cooling problem, I would think. It might have come with some issues (which is why they now had failures?), so it could end up that they haven't been succesful, so they cannot fully use the extra power they also (say they) have found. That's not, to my mind, playing games.

[NL_Fer]

I still remember the whole grid covered in thick white smoke, after Lewis took of for the formation lap and Toto Wolff was like: just the turboseals not sealing during cold idle, nothing to see here.

[saviour stivala]

I still remember the whole grid covered in thick white smoke, after Lewis took of for the formation lap and Toto Wolff was like: just the turboseals not sealing during cold idle, nothing to see here.

"The whole grid covered in thick white smoke after 44 took of for the formation lap". That white smoke (oil) either from turboseals not sealing during very low boost or piston rings developments lead them to not use oil control rings for a not so small power gain. Visit ‘qualifying only engine’ thread for power gain information. Since those days piston rings development must have progressed to such an extant such that they could do away with oil rings.