what vettel need is a very quick can, lousy qualifying and a track which have long DRS zone.adam2003 wrote:Alonso deserves it more than vettle. I like vettle but find hes only good when the car is the best i have never seen him battle though the field like Alonso. He gets pole and usally runs away never see much of the raw talent
Repeating this stereotype time and again will not make it any more true. Seb has shown that he can compete with the best when it comes to dragging a car higher than it's qualifying position. You need to re run a couple of this years races if your memory is so short. On balance Vettel did not have a more competitive car than Alonso. They are quite comparable actually this year in terms of making points with a competitive but not superior car. Vettel has been enjoying an advantage for the last three or four weeks that was similarly enjoyed by Alonso in summer. So the pundits are all betting their money on Vettel. But a good development by Ferrari could turn that around. It is just that people are aware of Ferrari's difficulties to consolidate tunnel results into parts with a performance advantage.adam2003 wrote:Alonso deserves it more than vettle. I like vettle but find hes only good when the car is the best i have never seen him battle though the field like Alonso. He gets pole and usally runs away never see much of the raw talent
Isn't it something like 9-7 between him and Webber in qualifying this year? and that's not even taking into account the problems Webber had at Barcelona and Valencia in qualifying. No doubt he has had some outstanding qualifyings this year such as Valencia or Monza, but i don't think he's some qualifying master as some make him out to be. Alonso and Hamilton are at least as good in this respect.WhiteBlue wrote:Repeating this stereotype time and again will not make it any more true. Seb has shown that he can compete with the best when it comes to dragging a car higher than it's qualifying position. You need to re run a couple of this years races if your memory is so short. On balance Vettel did not have a more competitive car than Alonso. They are quite comparable actually this year in terms of making points with a competitive but not superior car. Vettel has been enjoying an advantage for the last three or four weeks that was similarly enjoyed by Alonso in summer. So the pundits are all betting their money on Vettel. But a good development by Ferrari could turn that around. It is just that people are aware of Ferrari's difficulties to consolidate tunnel results into parts with a performance advantage.adam2003 wrote:Alonso deserves it more than vettle. I like vettle but find hes only good when the car is the best i have never seen him battle though the field like Alonso. He gets pole and usally runs away never see much of the raw talent
With all due respect, you are obviously not aware of the facts. Webber had 11 poles from 194 F1 races. Vettel has 34 poles from 97 races. Considering that they had equal equipment for almost all of Vettel's career the figures speak a very clear language. Webber has a 5.% pole ratio to his races and Vettel has 35%. Some people would conclude that Vettel is something like 7 times better at driving a qualifying lap. One could try to just consider their time at Re Bull together but that would not yield very different data I would bet. Perhaps the ratio would drop to five times in favour of Vettel. But what difference it would make to the bottom line. Vettel is a much more superior qualifier than Webber and that doesn't take into account how difficult it has lately been for Webber to convert poles into race leading laps. Vettel is brilliant in that regard. If you give him half a chance he will usually take it by the neck and wring it to the last drop.Gerhard Berger wrote:Isn't it something like 9-7 between him and Webber in qualifying this year? and that's not even taking into account the problems Webber had at Barcelona and Valencia in qualifying. No doubt he has had some outstanding qualifyings this year such as Valencia or Monza, but i don't think he's some qualifying master as some make him out to be. Alonso and Hamilton are at least as good in this respect.
WB, I think a comparison on their years as teammates (2009 - 2012) would be a much more appropriate comparison.WhiteBlue wrote:Webber had 11 poles from 194 F1 races. Vettel has 34 poles from 97 races.
I have already estimated what would be result of that comparison but we can make a quick napkins style evaluation. Lets assume Webber had no poles before 2009 and all his poles would be with the same car as Vettel had. Then his pole count would be 11 from 97 races compared to Vettel's 34 from 97 races. Vettel would still be three times better in terms of getting pole from the same equipment. No excuses there! Actually you would have to substract Vettel's Toro Rosso Monza pole. That would still pan out at 33 vs 11 poles.raymondu999 wrote:WB, I think a comparison on their years as teammates (2009 - 2012) would be a much more appropriate comparison.WhiteBlue wrote:Webber had 11 poles from 194 F1 races. Vettel has 34 poles from 97 races.
Because you are intelligent enough to get the message the first time without me having to do more research. So why should I let you waste my time. It makes no difference to the undeniable fact that Vettel is the superior qualifier. And that was the whole point of this little off topic discussion. I wanted to put the record straight on that point.tathan wrote:That's totally fine. Why didn't you say that the first time?
( I jest of course) 
Well... I'll think of something.raymondu999 wrote:...the Renault works team is now Red Bull, not the Enstone team formerly known as Renault.
