Alonso's Crash

[lkocev]

It´s funny to read how some people think crashing with a concrete wall at 150kmh is a slow speed crash

With a concrete wall even a third of that, a 50kmh crash, can be a disaster. Obviously the angle of the impact play a huge role, but even with a low angle a concrete wall always causes very high decelerations, and concussions are caused by decelerations, so I don´t see how Alonso´s unconsciusness can be considered odd. Same for staying 48h in hospital, that´s standard



It´s the lack of info provided by Alonso or the team what make me nervous...

Yes, that it's true. But i don't think that for a F1 car, a 50kmh crash would be a disaster. 150kmh is a slow speed when you compare with other accidents.

I'm going to agree with lotus7, and santos that 50km/h into concrete wall can be quite disastrous. I know that 150km/h might be considered slow in context of the turn three, I mean don't the drivers normally exit that turn at like 250 km/h or something? But still, a concrete wall is a concrete wall, it doesn't flex appreciably to reduce the deceleration rate.

As for Richard the moderator and George-Jung, no its not time for me to move on. It really isn't funny making a completely distasteful joke about a driver who has been in a nasty shunt. I might add that I'm actually not an Alonso fan, but irrespective of that, we are talking about a human being here guys, a human being who had a nasty shunt and had a concussion. That doesn't make me laugh, not matter what kind of bullshit irony people try to throw on it. At the end of the day were all formula one fans here, we all follow the sport, we should all hope that the drivers taking part in the sport are able to leave the circuit be it a few days of testing or a grand prix weekend in one piece, and in good health. Its great that Alonso from the reports is said to be fine, its great that there appears to be nothing serious, we should all be grateful for that, but there really isn't a need for distasteful jokes, because concussion as actually quite a serious injury.

I guess this kind of will be as far as I go in this thread. Like I wrote in an earlier post, all I find strange is that after a 30g shunt, that the front right suspension arms didn't appear to have been broken, especially since the front right wheel was the first wheel to hit the wall. I wouldn't have expected that the arms collectively would be robust enough to resist that, I would never expect components that are subject to 4-5g, to be designed to resist 30g. I guess the answer to that question is pretty simple at the moment; obviously they are.

[Abarth]

Vidal, the photographer who took the pictures, says that he saw a different thing that McLaren was officialy saying:
http://www.formulapassion.it/2015/02/f1 ... a-mclaren/

[Del]

Can someone please translate that from spanish?

And I'll re-post my question,because of all the Inoue crap that was said.

I don't want to sound like a fan of conspiracy theories,I just want to ask you a few questions.

http://imgur.com/a/BJfWo

First photo - that's the steering wheel turned right,and it's visable...if I'm not mistaken,so where is Alonso's hand?

Here's an onboard,to make a refrence about the hand positions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBBuU6eo5AQ

Also ,this might be just a coincidence,but on pic 7,isn't the steering wheel at the same position?

I do believe that the wind theory is plausible ,and a good explanation for the crash.

... But when I see the pics from this crash in the mclaren,and the exact place where the crash happened....the reaction on behalf of Alonso(no counter steering) ...I do have some questions unanswered.

...

[Miguel]

Oh yeah, conspiracies. Gotta love them.

I must admit that everything looks a bit strange, especially when the reports are compared to other crashes we've seen. I do believe that Alonso has been terribly unlucky. Given the structure of carbon fibre, if he hit the wall at the wrong angle the suspension will not break and dissipate, but transfer all the load into the cockpit. That must have hurt.

Let's look at the numbers. Assuming Alonso's speed to be 150 km/h, the impact speed would have been 150*sin(AoA). At 15 degrees, that's a deceleration of ~40 km/h or about 11 m/s. The reports have mentioned an acceleration of 15g's for 54 ms. So we have

Looks about right, and we have some elbow margin for the >30g peak.This seems to be like running head on to a wall... with no quantum tunnelling to help you.

Anyway, let's hope that nothing serious happens to him in the long run.

[ojlopez]

It´s funny to read how some people think crashing with a concrete wall at 150kmh is a slow speed crash

With a concrete wall even a third of that, a 50kmh crash, can be a disaster. Obviously the angle of the impact play a huge role, but even with a low angle a concrete wall always causes very high decelerations, and concussions are caused by decelerations, so I don´t see how Alonso´s unconsciusness can be considered odd. Same for staying 48h in hospital, that´s standard



It´s the lack of info provided by Alonso or the team what make me nervous...

Yes, that it's true. But i don't think that for a F1 car, a 50kmh crash would be a disaster. 150kmh is a slow speed when you compare with other accidents.

I'm going to agree with lotus7, and santos that 50km/h into concrete wall can be quite disastrous. I know that 150km/h might be considered slow in context of the turn three, I mean don't the drivers normally exit that turn at like 250 km/h or something? But still, a concrete wall is a concrete wall, it doesn't flex appreciably to reduce the deceleration rate.

As for Richard the moderator and George-Jung, no its not time for me to move on. It really isn't funny making a completely distasteful joke about a driver who has been in a nasty shunt. I might add that I'm actually not an Alonso fan, but irrespective of that, we are talking about a human being here guys, a human being who had a nasty shunt and had a concussion. That doesn't make me laugh, not matter what kind of bullshit irony people try to throw on it. At the end of the day were all formula one fans here, we all follow the sport, we should all hope that the drivers taking part in the sport are able to leave the circuit be it a few days of testing or a grand prix weekend in one piece, and in good health. Its great that Alonso from the reports is said to be fine, its great that there appears to be nothing serious, we should all be grateful for that, but there really isn't a need for distasteful jokes, because concussion as actually quite a serious injury.

I guess this kind of will be as far as I go in this thread. Like I wrote in an earlier post, all I find strange is that after a 30g shunt, that the front right suspension arms didn't appear to have been broken, especially since the front right wheel was the first wheel to hit the wall. I wouldn't have expected that the arms collectively would be robust enough to resist that, I would never expect components that are subject to 4-5g, to be designed to resist 30g. I guess the answer to that question is pretty simple at the moment; obviously they are.

I agree with you guys, its not the same to crash into a solid reinforced concrete wall than into a tire barrier or energy absorbing wall. Concrete does not deform and absorbs very little energy.

[PistoniRoventi]

https://twitter.com/JordiVidal1983

This is the photographer who took the only pictures available and he disagree with McLaren official statement.

[Jonnycraig]

Gary Anderson not very impressed with McLarens statements:

Take Fernando Alonso's crash. A statement was released saying that there was no change in the aerodynamic loads on the car, it was because of a gust of wind. But wind changes the aerodynamic loads - that's why the driver has to deal with sudden understeer or oversteer and all of a sudden is in the wall.

While there's a degree of McLaren trying to clarify what happened given some of the inevitable rumours that do the rounds, it's simply not true that there was no change. Why say these things? It makes you question the mindset in the team.

http://m.autosport.com/premium/feature/ ... o-excuses/

[Vasconia]

Gary Anderson not very impressed with McLarens statements:

Take Fernando Alonso's crash. A statement was released saying that there was no change in the aerodynamic loads on the car, it was because of a gust of wind. But wind changes the aerodynamic loads - that's why the driver has to deal with sudden understeer or oversteer and all of a sudden is in the wall.

While there's a degree of McLaren trying to clarify what happened given some of the inevitable rumours that do the rounds, it's simply not true that there was no change. Why say these things? It makes you question the mindset in the team.

http://m.autosport.com/premium/feature/ ... o-excuses/

I was going to read the full article but as far as I am not a suscribed, I cant.

Cand you explain if he makes any additional explanation?

[Tim.Wright]

Gary Anderson has made the point which I raised yesterday. They claim the wind caused the accident but also claimed no change in aero pressure. Obviously both can't be true.

Another thing to bear in mind is that the wind can only pitch a car off the track if it occurs when the car is very close to the grip limit...

[Moose]

Gary Anderson has made the point which I raised yesterday. They claim the wind caused the accident but also claimed no change in aero pressure. Obviously both can't be true.

Another thing to bear in mind is that the wind can only pitch a car off the track if it occurs when the car is very close to the grip limit...

Bear in mind also though that the car was going unusually slowly, which will have made it closer to the grip limit, and allowed a large gust of wind to rob a higher proportion of its downforce. A 30mph gust of wind would have robbed him of a third of his downforce at 90mph, but only a fifth at 150.

[Tim.Wright]

Downforce isn't proportional to velocity. Its proportional to velocity^2. Downforce then becomes less velocity sensitive at low speeds.

Also, these tyres are capable of 1.5-2g of grip without downforce. If a car is cornering in this range, no gust of wind will ever blow it off the road.

[iotar__]

Gary Anderson has made the point which I raised yesterday. They claim the wind caused the accident but also claimed no change in aero pressure. Obviously both can't be true.

Another thing to bear in mind is that the wind can only pitch a car off the track if it occurs when the car is very close to the grip limit...

Wording and context perhaps? No car related loss of aero pressure, no mechanical failure, no wings falling off etc. They were just naming all the things that didn't happen including electric shock.

I was was waiting for Alonso to explain the accident a bit but since he doesn't remember.

[Moose]

Downforce isn't proportional to velocity. Its proportional to velocity^2. Downforce then becomes less velocity sensitive at low speeds.

Also, these tyres are capable of 1.5-2g of grip without downforce. If a car is cornering in this range, no gust of wind will ever blow it off the road.

Oops, my bad! Indeed, with v^2 taken into account, said gust of wind will rob the car of 56% of it's downforce at 90mph. While at 150mph it will rob only 36%.

I'd say the sudden loss of over half your car's downforce is likely to cause you a significant problem. Vettel is also likely to have been somewhat surprised by the effect on Alonso, because he will only have lost a third of the car's downforce.

[radosav]

Alonso may skip last test!
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alons ... oming-test

[Shafto]

I even want to believe Mclaren, but I can't.

I hope what they say is what they say. [-o<