2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

[venkyhere]

[FittingMechanics]

Live timing issue affected F1 data sites as well?

[Emag]

Live timing issue affected F1 data sites as well?

f1 Livetiming is literally the source for pretty much everything that either uses fastf1 or a private fork of it. If that goes, everything goes.

[FittingMechanics]

Live timing issue affected F1 data sites as well?

f1 Livetiming is literally the source for pretty much everything that either uses fastf1 or a private fork of it. If that goes, everything goes.

Such a shame, LEC, NOR and HAD were doing race sims. Maybe few more.

[upsidedowntoast]

Yep, they are simply running in detuned mode so that they can try to sell the FIA a detuned image that they are really "weak".

Yes. Looks like...suddenly the RedBull is the strongest engine...

Won't work. The FIA will benchmark the PU's on a dyno.

And a dyno is free of "modes"?

First of all, if there is a "trick", it is an efficiency trick. They can use it for peak power or better...for efficiency. If they use it for efficiency nothing one could use to attack them will show up on a dyno.

Everyone seems so convinced that they're sandbagging again (probably 2014 trauma) but I don't think so. Mclaren have the exact same engine and they are doing fine. Not just talking about lap times, but their unreliability in hot weather. The fact that they've carried over this issue into a new reg set is very not good.

GPS data shows that the Merc engines are all lower on power. The McLaren was perfectly balanced, again a super easy to drive car. No miracle that they showed superb long runs. Has nothing to do with the engine.

Ok, fair. Though at this point I would still trust Mclaren over Merc considering that they're no longer allowed to sell their customers weaker engines. Maybe I'm wrong and this is all recency bias but they've restructured organizationally in such a way that they are unlikely to return to their pre-2024 "absolute mess" status. This year they clearly have a decent car, not sure where anyone is in the pecking order yet obviously, but Mclaren have shown their ability to adapt and improve, ripping everything out from the root if need be. Whereas...I don't know, Mercedes still seem a little stuck in their ways. But maybe I'm just being unnecessarily critical.

[basti313]

Yep, they are simply running in detuned mode so that they can try to sell the FIA a detuned image that they are really "weak".

Yes. Looks like...suddenly the RedBull is the strongest engine...

Won't work. The FIA will benchmark the PU's on a dyno.

And a dyno is free of "modes"?

First of all, if there is a "trick", it is an efficiency trick. They can use it for peak power or better...for efficiency. If they use it for efficiency nothing one could use to attack them will show up on a dyno.

Everyone seems so convinced that they're sandbagging again (probably 2014 trauma) but I don't think so. Mclaren have the exact same engine and they are doing fine. Not just talking about lap times, but their unreliability in hot weather. The fact that they've carried over this issue into a new reg set is very not good.

GPS data shows that the Merc engines are all lower on power. The McLaren was perfectly balanced, again a super easy to drive car. No miracle that they showed superb long runs. Has nothing to do with the engine.

Ok, fair. Though at this point I would still trust Mclaren over Merc considering that they're no longer allowed to sell their customers weaker engines. Maybe I'm wrong and this is all recency bias but they've restructured organizationally in such a way that they are unlikely to return to their pre-2024 "absolute mess" status. This year they clearly have a decent car, not sure where anyone is in the pecking order yet obviously, but Mclaren have shown their ability to adapt and improve, ripping everything out from the root if need be. Whereas...I don't know, Mercedes still seem a little stuck in their ways. But maybe I'm just being unnecessarily critical.

Why should they sell anything weaker? They sell every engine the same.

I do not see it as problematic at all:
- In Barcelona they did their engine testing. Full power, lots of laps. Going on the second day for race simulation directly speaks for this. They did not mess with setup at all.
- They saw, that they are well ahead this is the 10-20HP that is well calculatable if the close to 1:18 CR is true.
- They turned it down to use it as efficiency. On all engines. This will help with cooling and fuel. This is the 1-2HP Toto is now speaking about.
- That the balance is a mess when they start playing with setups is also totally normal. Might be different again next week.

[upsidedowntoast]

Yes. Looks like...suddenly the RedBull is the strongest engine...


And a dyno is free of "modes"?

First of all, if there is a "trick", it is an efficiency trick. They can use it for peak power or better...for efficiency. If they use it for efficiency nothing one could use to attack them will show up on a dyno.


GPS data shows that the Merc engines are all lower on power. The McLaren was perfectly balanced, again a super easy to drive car. No miracle that they showed superb long runs. Has nothing to do with the engine.

Ok, fair. Though at this point I would still trust Mclaren over Merc considering that they're no longer allowed to sell their customers weaker engines. Maybe I'm wrong and this is all recency bias but they've restructured organizationally in such a way that they are unlikely to return to their pre-2024 "absolute mess" status. This year they clearly have a decent car, not sure where anyone is in the pecking order yet obviously, but Mclaren have shown their ability to adapt and improve, ripping everything out from the root if need be. Whereas...I don't know, Mercedes still seem a little stuck in their ways. But maybe I'm just being unnecessarily critical.

Why should they sell anything weaker? They sell every engine the same.

I do not see it as problematic at all:
- In Barcelona they did their engine testing. Full power, lots of laps. Going on the second day for race simulation directly speaks for this. They did not mess with setup at all.
- They saw, that they are well ahead this is the 10-20HP that is well calculatable if the close to 1:18 CR is true.
- They turned it down to use it as efficiency. On all engines. This will help with cooling and fuel. This is the 1-2HP Toto is now speaking about.
- That the balance is a mess when they start playing with setups is also totally normal. Might be different again next week.

Right, they used to sell weaker engines during their 2014-2021 era and they no longer can. This means that their inherent advantage against a customer team like Mclaren is much narrower than in years past.

My worries (and I should note that I am the sort of person who overindexes on negative news constantly so feel free to take my analysis with a grain of salt) are that
- Barcelona was cold and Bahrain is hot, and they are having much more trouble here
- We still have no idea if they'll be able to keep that compression ratio advantage or if they'll be nerfed hard, especially since RB have reportedly switched sides
- Playing around with setups is one thing but they've already lost close to a day and a half due to various issues. Which, I guess it's better that they're catching these things now as opposed to during the season proper, but it's still very not ideal considering that Mclaren and Ferrari have been currently putting in their laps without issue.

For what it's worth I hope that they're doing better tomorrow and next week. I also hope that all four Merc PU teams get to keep their compression ratio trick without nerfs at least for 2026. (I'm in this thread so obviously I'm biased.) I know the other teams won't like this but I think it'll make the midfield much more exciting if Williams and Alpine are competitive.

[Badger]

Won't work. The FIA will benchmark the PU's on a dyno.

And a dyno is free of "modes"?

No, but once the engine is benchmarked you can't change modes without it being discovered by the FIA. Whatever you choose as your benchmark power level when your engine is homologated you will be forced to run the entire year (unless you qualify for ADUO). This should disincentivise major engine sandbagging because it is a massive gamble to lock in a lower power setting for the full year.

I don't know that the FIA does it this way, but they should.

[pantherxxx]

No one is smiling in Mercedes garage, everyone smiling in Red Bull garage. I think Toto is honest, maybe the ICE is the best, but Red Bull Ford might have solved the electric part better, and that can count even more.

[Lasssept]

[Lasssept]

[zibby43]

No one is smiling in Mercedes garage, everyone smiling in Red Bull garage. I think Toto is honest, maybe the ICE is the best, but Red Bull Ford might have solved the electric part better, and that can count even more.

Max on Mercedes :

“Let me tell you something. Wait for Melbourne and see suddenly how much power they have”

“I already know”

[SB15]

No one is smiling in Mercedes garage, everyone smiling in Red Bull garage. I think Toto is honest, maybe the ICE is the best, but Red Bull Ford might have solved the electric part better, and that can count even more.

Max on Mercedes :

“Let me tell you something. Wait for Melbourne and see suddenly how much power they have”

“I already know”

As soon as Q3 starts. Mclaren and Mercedes will have the top 4 spots

[upsidedowntoast]

No one is smiling in Mercedes garage, everyone smiling in Red Bull garage. I think Toto is honest, maybe the ICE is the best, but Red Bull Ford might have solved the electric part better, and that can count even more.

Max on Mercedes :

“Let me tell you something. Wait for Melbourne and see suddenly how much power they have”

“I already know”

As soon as Q3 starts. Mclaren and Mercedes will have the top 4 spots

idk, the FIA could very well nerf them still. I'm getting more and more pessimistic about this as the days pass. The entire grid from Lance to Max are acting like the Merc PU is this unbeatable monster already, and we've never even seen it race. If that's the belief (or even if they're just parroting talking points for the cameras) then it would be in all of their best interests to get the rule changes/TDs in ASAP for 2026 too, not just 2027.

Maybe Max is being straightforward here, or maybe he's just reverse sandbagging after Toto talked up RB yesterday. It will be really disappointing if Merc was kneecapped before the season starts, but it'll be even worse if Merc was allowed to run their PU and they still screw up because of inconsistency/setup issues/heat. I really they hope they get their --- together for day 3 and week 2 of Bahrain.

[SB15]

Max on Mercedes :

“Let me tell you something. Wait for Melbourne and see suddenly how much power they have”

“I already know”

As soon as Q3 starts. Mclaren and Mercedes will have the top 4 spots

idk, the FIA could very well nerf them still. I'm getting more and more pessimistic about this as the days pass. The entire grid from Lance to Max are acting like the Merc PU is this unbeatable monster already, and we've never even seen it race. If that's the belief (or even if they're just parroting talking points for the cameras) then it would be in all of their best interests to get the rule changes/TDs in ASAP for 2026 too, not just 2027.

Maybe Max is being straightforward here, or maybe he's just reverse sandbagging after Toto talked up RB yesterday. It will be really disappointing if Merc was kneecapped before the season starts, but it'll be even worse if Merc was allowed to run their PU and they still screw up because of inconsistency/setup issues/heat. I really they hope they get their --- together for day 3 and week 2 of Bahrain.

I understand your pessimism, but these are just people waffling.