Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Blackout]

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 85#p615885

That was a joke

[godlameroso]

"Let me put this concept of the domino effect into a technical example: if you try to harvest energy using the MGU-H, it puts a strenuous workload on the turbo. When the turbo is under stress, it cannot do what it is supposed to do, which is to force more air into the engine, thus leading to decreased power output. This is the result of one component working against the others, instead of working together."

That's probably why Honda said they had a great ICE but everything else was lackluster. It sounds like it wasn't designed as a PU, it was designed as a turbo ICE with a recovery system slapped on it.

Honda since said they were playing with new combustion ideas, and that was from early in the season. Makes sense.

I'm starting to think you're right. Listen to this interview, specifically around the 1:03-1:11 mark, it doesn't sound like someone that's confident in their ERS system.

[damager21]

I have not heard anything about when the new PU will or will not be ready for testing. If they are not planning to run the new PU until the second session, then that is news to me.

I have not heard anything from my nephew in over a week. It was my understanding that they are not behind schedule, expecting 4 to 6% increase in output from ICE alone over latest 2015 spec ICE mostly from redesigned combustion chamber design to match revised fuel from Mobil. I hope they launch the new PU in the first session but I don't know. I don't know what the current schedule is...

This would mean that Honda will start about 40 to 50 horsepower behind Mercedes this season. This is assuming that they have resolved their ERS issue. Here's hoping that the gap is smaller than this.

I think reliability will be extremely critical. Start of the season if they are behind Mercedes, good reliability would mean that Honda can focus more on bringing performance upgrades throughout the season. Last year was a double whammy for them, bad reliability & performance.

[Joseki]

I have not heard anything about when the new PU will or will not be ready for testing. If they are not planning to run the new PU until the second session, then that is news to me.

I have not heard anything from my nephew in over a week. It was my understanding that they are not behind schedule, expecting 4 to 6% increase in output from ICE alone over latest 2015 spec ICE mostly from redesigned combustion chamber design to match revised fuel from Mobil. I hope they launch the new PU in the first session but I don't know. I don't know what the current schedule is...

This would mean that Honda will start about 40 to 50 horsepower behind Mercedes this season. This is assuming that they have resolved their ERS issue. Here's hoping that the gap is smaller than this.

I think reliability will be extremely critical. Start of the season if they are behind Mercedes, good reliability would mean that Honda can focus more on bringing performance upgrades throughout the season. Last year was a double whammy for them, bad reliability & performance.

I don't think they were more than 50 bhp down on Mercedes in qualy mode, so I expect them to be maybe 20 bhp behind Mercedes if they improve by 6%.

[GoranF1]

I think this may be the same site that said few days ago that they will not make it to test 1
http://en.f1i.com/magazine/39997-what-l ... gains.html

[aterren]

I'm starting to think you're right. Listen to this interview, specifically around the 1:03-1:11 mark, it doesn't sound like someone that's confident in their ERS system.

That video was uploaded June of 2014. Is that relevant to the 2016 engine?

[Joseki]

I think this may be the same site that said few days ago that they will not make it to test 1
http://en.f1i.com/magazine/39997-what-l ... gains.html

http://www.f1analisitecnica.com/2016/01 ... n-piu.html

It's a translation of this article.

[godlameroso]

I'm starting to think you're right. Listen to this interview, specifically around the 1:03-1:11 mark, it doesn't sound like someone that's confident in their ERS system.

That video was uploaded June of 2014. Is that relevant to the 2016 engine?

In the sense that they may have not had enough time to work out the recovery system. They took a chance, they learned, now they'll adapt. You're only a fool if you don't learn from your mistakes, and Honda was basically thrown in the water and they've had to build their paddle while drowning. I'm still excited, a company with the facilities, talent, and dedication is destined to improve. I think we'll be pleasantly surprised with their advances.

[Chicane]

When you look at the way they were struggling to deploy last season it appears as though they weren't even able to recover 4mj over a normal racing lap let alone powering the mgu k directly via the mgu h.

So if we assume that to be true then the benefits are going to be three fold. Firstly they will benefit from utilizing the full allocation from the battery to the MGU K. Secondly they will benefit from the MGU H powering the MGU K directly. Thirdly they will be much better served fuel efficiency wise with a fully functional ERS and as result of which they will not to have to resort to the kind of fuel saving they had to do at most of the races last season.

In qualifying they could afford to do a lap just to charge the battery and then go for the qualifying lap but during the race they did not have the luxury and in Button's own words got overtaken at places they were not supposed to. The setup compromises they had to make last year to stop getting mugged on straights hurt their lap times even further. Even if Honda make decent gains with their reliability and ERS McLaren will be leap frigging a bunch of cars straight away. Also with tokens allowed to be used throughout the season they can set targets and meet them accordingly. Cannot wait for the first test.

[Wazari]

There maybe a reason why that sensationalist article about the "223" HP came about. This is purely speculation but it is my understanding that possibly some media members overhead a conversation at Pirelli's wet tire testing where a few McLaren Honda staff where conversing amongst themselves about the possible increase of "about" 60 HP from the ICE from the first race in Melbourne last year to Melbourne this year. That coupled with the guess that they could extract full power from the ERS for a longer period on each lap is probably where the media came up with that figure. We all know what a misleading headline that is. I guess they are in the business of creating sensationalism based on hearsay and very imaginative minds.

My understanding is that at AD, the ICE was producing in the neighborhood of 630 to 640 HP.

[FW17]

If that is the case, they could be way way way off.........

There are suggestions that the Merc engine is over 900HP (i.e. 740+160)

[-wkst-]

Mercedes is rumoured to have about 700 HP from ICE.

Arai talked in autumn to be 40-50 hp behind Mercedes with ICE. After his statement Mercedes used all tokens for next race and Honda their last tokens 1-2 months later in Austin.

The bad thing is: Ferrari and Mercedes costumers say that both will make a good step forward, so Honda need 2 steps on ICE side to catch up.

ERS is another story: I guess they will get at least 1 sec per lap in race for free with a functional ERS, not so much in quali.

[GoranF1]

Jo Ramirez;

"I hope not wrong, but the people I talk to the team, McLaren are very hopeful. They believe they have solved the grave problems. 2015 is over, we must all have the hope that (things) will change "he said in an interview with Spanish radio COPE.

"Surely they will be in the points always and see some podiums. I think they have changed a lot. They have repaired the basic errors which had and I think it will go much better. They had problems with batteries, trouble adjusting parts the power unit, but I think they have done in a similar way to that of Ferrari. "

"The season (2015) was a huge waste of two pilots. I can not imagine how they felt, but I admire them for what endured. They knew it would be a bad year, but did not expect that much out. But it's over now all you have much hope that things will change. "

Google Translate

EDIT; uuups wrong thread, mods feel free to move it!

[wuzak]

Mercedes is rumoured to have about 700 HP from ICE.

If [you] just look at the internal combustion engine, then today’s V6 1.6 litre turbo-charged engine is approximately the same power as the V8 engine was.

F1 V6 Turbos are more Powerful than V8S or V10S says, Mercedes’ Engine Boss
So, that is in the region of 720hp-750hp for the ICE only.

[-wkst-]

Well, that's all a bit weird. I know this comments from Cowell, but I also heard live, back in 2014, the comments from Lauda at Servus TV were he claimed that the ICE from Mercedes (first spec 2014) has 580 hp. 160 hp increase? Maybe both men no right...