2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

[saviour stivala]

Are there some changes for the batteries to expect? I know that there is a list for allowed materials and every design has to be approved by the FIA. But it is possible to go to a supercapcitor or some sort of "different" energy store?

Highly unliely that supercapacitors will replace the ES (battery) in F1.

[Ferry]

Highly unliely that supercapacitors will replace the ES (battery) in F1.

Supercapacitor is just a fancy name for a electric double layer capacitor, EDLC. Also known as ultracapacitor. They fall somewhere between capacitors and battery in capacity and charge/recharge times.
Roughly categorized, batteries operate in minutes to hours time domain, EDLC seconds to minutes, capacitor < 1 second.
I think what people mean by supercapacitor is a non excisting thing with super properties. What we would like to have, not the excisting supercapacitors of today.

[saviour stivala]

Regardless if 'supercapacitor' is just a fancy name or not, being an EDLC or ULTRACAPACITOR, Still the formula 1 power unit use batteries over supercapacitors for the high energy density they offer, storing significantly more energy per unit of weight and volume than supercapacitors.

[chipengineer]

Indycar uses a super capacitor hybrid; the energy storage is fairly small.

[saviour stivala]

Indycar uses super capacitors to store energy harvested from both braking and throttle. Formula 1 uses battery/ES and MGU-K (only from next year) - braking energy recovery, during braking, which would otherwise be lost.

[FW17]

Does anyone have a 2026 engine layout? Are there many options like 2014 season?

From what I understood from regulations are

Back of monocoque/driver seat - MGU - MGU gearbox - ICE engine - Turbo - Gearbox

The PCU will be on top of the MGU

The battery will be on either side of the MGU and either side of the engine (where in the current engines the MGU K is located) all the way to the gearbox.

[diffuser]

Does anyone have a 2026 engine layout? Are there many options like 2014 season?

From what I understood from regulations are

Back of monocoque/driver seat - MGU - MGU gearbox - ICE engine - Turbo - Gearbox

The PCU will be on top of the MGU

The battery will be on either side of the MGU and either side of the engine (where in the current engines the MGU K is located) all the way to the gearbox.

Don't think the MGU-K and the MGU-K Gear can be separated. They'll be one above the other at one end. The turbo is allowed to sit in the V of V6 and there is a limit to the length of the spindle between the Compressor and turbine. I doubt anyone would put the turbine in the V but someone might stick the compressor there. The Turbo and it's exhaust would always sit above the gearbox.

[wuzak]

The MGUK does not have to be forward of the ICE - it can be beside the ICE.

However, the MGUK transmission must connect to the crankshaft forward a point near the front of the engine. (I don't recall the exact number, but X=0 for the mounting plan at the front of the ICE, the MGUK must connect to the crankshaft forward of X=50mm.)

For weight balance, it would seem likely that the MGUK would be forward of the ICE.

[Farnborough]

Does anyone have a 2026 engine layout? Are there many options like 2014 season?

From what I understood from regulations are

Back of monocoque/driver seat - MGU - MGU gearbox - ICE engine - Turbo - Gearbox

The PCU will be on top of the MGU

The battery will be on either side of the MGU and either side of the engine (where in the current engines the MGU K is located) all the way to the gearbox.

Don't think the MGU-K and the MGU-K Gear can be separated. They'll be one above the other at one end. The turbo is allowed to sit in the V of V6 and there is a limit to the length of the spindle between the Compressor and turbine. I doubt anyone would put the turbine in the V but someone might stick the compressor there. The Turbo and it's exhaust would always sit above the gearbox.

There's quite a number (in current road car design) of "hot" V turbo installation .... cylinder head "reversed" with exhaust out top side straight into turbo entrance, effectively no exhaust manifold to speak of. Intake on low side of cylinder heads (where exhaust currently/conventionally sits) after cooling interchange etc. The exhaust of these systems exits exactly where F1 pipe currently resides over gearbox structure.

If rules allow, that could be one way to go for a manufacturer. It could put the intercooler installation completel down in sidepod and direct to intake manifold at low level with significantly different car layout. Honda have only the one /bespoke chassis with very adventurous lead in design team to cooperate with

Could be a significant play on design iteration that would be hard to replicate.

[Farnborough]

Audi are currently one of the exponent of the above concept, also with single chassis to supply.

[wuzak]

Unfortunately, the rules forbid the "hot vee" configuration.

C5.1.5 Engine exhaust gases may only exit the Cylinder Head through outlets outboard of the cylinder bore centre line and not from within the “V” centre.

[wuzak]

Audi are currently one of the exponent of the above concept, also with single chassis to supply.

Mercedes have had usuch a configuration for years now, and Ferrari's 296 and F80 have a "hot vee".

[Farnborough]

Unfortunately, the rules forbid the "hot vee" configuration.

C5.1.5 Engine exhaust gases may only exit the Cylinder Head through outlets outboard of the cylinder bore centre line and not from within the “V” centre.

That "could" still allow the arrangement by placing the exhaust valves in V side of bore centre and routing out vertically across centre line to exit head and above inlet cam location to fulfill that rules demand. The head exit point then being entirely in accord with directive.

[Farnborough]

Audi are currently one of the exponent of the above concept, also with single chassis to supply.

Mercedes have had usuch a configuration for years now, and Ferrari's 296 and F80 have a "hot vee".

I did note ONE of the exponent in this arrangement .... the connection I'd given before being relevant that audi will understand this AND be not accountable in supply chain to other teams that they don't supply PU to.

The relevance in both Honda & Audi, if they were to make anything more radical, then it's just into a solus chassis arrangement.

[wuzak]

The MGUK does not have to be forward of the ICE - it can be beside the ICE.

However, the MGUK transmission must connect to the crankshaft forward a point near the front of the engine. (I don't recall the exact number, but X=0 for the mounting plan at the front of the ICE, the MGUK must connect to the crankshaft forward of X=50mm.)

For weight balance, it would seem likely that the MGUK would be forward of the ICE.

So, the connection is forward of X = 100mm.

C5.18 MGU-K
C5.18.1 The MGU-K must be mechanically fixed to the Survival Cell, the ICE or both.
C5.18.2 Under normal operating conditions all MGU-K rotating parts must be permanently mechanically linked to the ICE with a fixed speed ratio to the crankshaft. The MGU-K and its drive axis must be parallel to the crankshaft axis.
C5.18.3 All mechanical power to and from the MGU-K must pass through a single shaft to the MGU-K transmission. The connection to the ICE crankshaft must be ahead of XPU=100.