General Honda F1 Topic

[subcritical71]

A reliable engine would be one that runs its designed life without failure. Seems Honda have a fairly reliable engine to me.

[GhostF1]

I don’t understand the argument of Honda not being reliable. They had zero failures in any race. And the ones that something happened to were at the end of their lifespan Friday practice only units. How is this even an argument

Exactly this ^^^. Have a look at this.

END OF SEASON

Alex and Max (Red Bull Honda) (Honda PU upgrades: 4) a 5th ICE was added to the pool to complete the season
ICE - 5
Turbo - 4
MGU-H - 4

Bottas (Mercedes) (Merc PU upgrades: 3)
ICE - 6
Turbo - 6
MGU-H - 6

Perez (RP Mercedes) (Merc PU upgrades: 3)
ICE - 5
Turbo - 5
MGU-H - 5

Daniel, Hulk (Renault) and Sainz (McLaren Renault) (Renault PU upgrades: 3)
ICE - 6
Turbo - 6
MGU-H - 6

Pierre and Daniil (STR Honda) (Honda PU upgrades 4) - 2 PU's replaced for both cars due to crashes, not failures
ICE - 7
Turbo - 7
MGU-H - 7

So, Honda managed to introduce a further upgrade more than it's competitors and yet still use less PU's than a lot of others. They've demonstrated 6 race longevity, only halted due to a more powerful engine being ready. And again, they are the only manufacturer without an on track failure or a race inhibiting issue (e.g Ferrari having several issues causing lack of power, MGU-K and "spark plug" problems. Their reliability is at least equal to the best out there this year. If anyone is going off what that loon Jacques Villeneuve is saying, then I'll leave that idiocy to them. But the point is, I can't see any reason why they won't be able to complete a season with reliability as a concern but I do expect a potential strategic 4th PU next year if the opportunity presents itself.

[etusch]

I don't have any obsession about finishing season with 3 Engine. I am ok if they choose to use 5 pus for 2020 too.
The important thing is finishing races. If they are competitive enough, starting from back at 2 planned races is not that important.
As bottas 2 failliure showed us every engine can have issues so I think every manufacturers has a plan for unexpected engine changes. It is better to have a safe milage with planned change than leaving it to circumtence.
This season engine life management of Honda was excelent and as @ghost said, they could do trouble free races because of that aproach

[Bill]

If Mercedes could have put both their drivers on new pu in Germany it would have been beneficial to them.Rain races are all chaotic so it make tactical sense to change engines. They is no divine rule that says you can't use more than 3 engines it just says if you use more elements you get a penalty . If the team feels they can absorb the blow then good for them.

[Wouter]

Not to mention: The Pirelli two test days.
Max and Albon have both done the most laps of all teams.
Together 5 race distances and that was with one used motor from the pole
that had already been used several races.
If you add that together, then you end up with at least 7 race weekends.
The Honda engine not reliable enough?
Honda has delivered a very reliable engine last season, hats off!

Day one
Max 153 rounds
Kvyat and Galael 139

Day two
Albon 139
Gasly 146

[Capharol]

Not to mention: The Pirelli two test days.
Max and Albon have both done the most laps of all teams.
Together 5 race distances and that was with one used motor from the pole
that had already been used several races.
If you add that together, then you end up with at least 7 race weekends.
The Honda engine not reliable enough?
Honda has delivered a very reliable engine last season, hats off!

Day one
Max 153 rounds
Kvyat and Galael 139

Day two
Albon 139
Gasly 146

and that is what i ment but other ppl tend to only see that "Honda used 5 engines, so it must be a reliabillty thing" and of that i am sick to read.

if you can tribute to a subject, then do this with some background knowledge and not just writting something down, just to have writen something

[kfrantzios]

Lets clear some things up. Too much confusion.
Current car testing events are not part of championship events and therefore the engine limits are not applicable.
Engine manufacturers are to provide PU and spares for all events in F1 World Championship plus 5000 km testing.
Engines in FP1 and FP2 can be severely detuned for reliability.
So every post that includes Current car testing events in engine reliability assumptions is wrong.
As Capharol said "if you can tribute to a subject, then do this with some background knowledge and not just writting something down, just to have writen something"

[Wouter]

Lets clear some things up. Too much confusion.
Current car testing events are not part of championship events and therefore the engine limits are not applicable.
Engine manufacturers are to provide PU and spares for all events in F1 World Championship plus 5000 km testing.
Engines in FP1 and FP2 can be severely detuned for reliability.
So every post that includes Current car testing events in engine reliability assumptions is wrong.
As Capharol said "if you can tribute to a subject, then do this with some background knowledge and not just writting something down, just to have writen something"

I have background information, YOU TOO ??

[kfrantzios]

Lets clear some things up. Too much confusion.
Current car testing events are not part of championship events and therefore the engine limits are not applicable.
Engine manufacturers are to provide PU and spares for all events in F1 World Championship plus 5000 km testing.
Engines in FP1 and FP2 can be severely detuned for reliability.
So every post that includes Current car testing events in engine reliability assumptions is wrong.
As Capharol said "if you can tribute to a subject, then do this with some background knowledge and not just writting something down, just to have writen something"

I have background information, YOU TOO ??

[AMG.Tzan]

Lets clear some things up. Too much confusion.
Current car testing events are not part of championship events and therefore the engine limits are not applicable.
Engine manufacturers are to provide PU and spares for all events in F1 World Championship plus 5000 km testing.
Engines in FP1 and FP2 can be severely detuned for reliability.
So every post that includes Current car testing events in engine reliability assumptions is wrong.
As Capharol said "if you can tribute to a subject, then do this with some background knowledge and not just writting something down, just to have writen something"

I have background information, YOU TOO ??

A bit of fanboism here maybe? With all the emojis and red colors you are posting every time someone says something "bad" about Honda engines...

Why get so upset about people saying that Honda hasn't done 7 races with the same engine? Wasn't that the truth in 2019? Do we have something against Honda? No! Do we want to see a better championship fight? Yes!

I don't care if Honda's engine can do 7 race distances in testing! All everyone is saying to you is that Honda hasn't managed to get its engine to last 7 races in the 2019 World Championship...not in the 2019 testings!

I don't know what they'll do in 2020...hopefully they'll get even better! 2019 was a development year both for them and Red Bull as it was the first year of their partnership! And Honda absolutely got much better in 2019 both in terms of on track reliability (look at Renault ) and performance!

My point (and i think everyone's) is that Honda has to get its engines to last 7 races if they are to mount a championship attack on Mercedes and Ferrari in 2020! Starting last at Monza wasn't at all great for Verstappen as it turned out...so they have to minimize these kind of situations!

[Wouter]

Lets clear some things up. Too much confusion.
Current car testing events are not part of championship events and therefore the engine limits are not applicable.
Engine manufacturers are to provide PU and spares for all events in F1 World Championship plus 5000 km testing.
Engines in FP1 and FP2 can be severely detuned for reliability.
So every post that includes Current car testing events in engine reliability assumptions is wrong.
As Capharol said "if you can tribute to a subject, then do this with some background knowledge and not just writting something down, just to have writen something"

I have background information, YOU TOO ??

.
A bit of fanboism here maybe? With all the emojis and red colors you are posting every time someone says something "bad" about Honda engines...

Why get so upset about people saying that Honda hasn't done 7 races with the same engine? Wasn't that the truth in 2019?

The reason that I indicate something with red is just to indicate that I am responding to that sentence and not to the entire message.
That can also be about completely different things, but that is my way of posting.
I'm not at all so upset about people saying that Honda hasn't done 7 races with the same engine.
What bothers me is that it is said that the Honda engine is unreliable, because it is not.

In any case, thank you for your decent answer @AMG.Tzan, that's how it can be done when you exchange ideas with someone.

[nzjrs]

My point (and i think everyone's) is that Honda has to get its engines to last 7 races if they are to mount a championship attack on Mercedes and Ferrari in 2020!

FWIW I think that point is actually still under discussion. For example, one can't dispute that Mercedes has had numerous on track engine failures and despite that have won everything for the last 6 years (so it's not a necessary criterion, yet)

With no real closing up of the midfield to the top 3, it's probably an important calculation as to whether one should aim for 7-race engines, or 6-race engines. Or put another way, avoiding on-track DNF's due to engine failures is going to be much more important than the designed life of an engine being 6 or 7 races. Or as subcritical said it best

A reliable engine would be one that runs its designed life without failure. Seems Honda have a fairly reliable engine to me.

[Juzh]

Greatest mistake this season IMO was not using the new spec already in SPA. This decision completely ruined 2 races instead of only one. Not to mention verstappen had same pace as lec/ham in monza, and even better at times.

[ispano6]

Greatest mistake this season IMO was not using the new spec already in SPA. This decision completely ruined 2 races instead of only one. Not to mention verstappen had same pace as lec/ham in monza, and even better at times.

Agreed, going conservative was pretty sissy in hindsight. Marko wasn't wrong, 5 wins was possible.

[Bill]

Max crashing out didn't help either.it didn't make sense to change pu in monza were overtaking is extremely difficult, maybe spa being almost a home race for Max influence their decision.