2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

[TAG]

You guys not see that when F1NAC posted it in the race thread about 3 weeks ago

I sure missed it. Maybe it got lost with all the Verstappen/Ricciardo chatter.

[NL_Fer]

Lewis and the partymode.

It has been the modus operandi for Mercedes to only unleash the partymode in Q3 session. Saving as much of the engine, to unleash as much power as possible for just 2 hot laps. But how can a driver like Hamilton prepare to exploit the extra power a good as possible?

I guess he just knows now, how much to back off, break earlier. Or would it be possible that the partymode is mapped in such a way, that it does not interfere with corner exit or topspeed before the braking point?

[Sierra117]

Probably, yes, the experience must have built up and given him a sense. Plus there's always the simulator that would help him adjust his senses to the extra speed. Like how if one simply looks at a heavier weight, they can stimulate in their minds how to contact their muscles or what it would feel like.

[saviour stivala]

Lewis and the partymode.

It has been the modus operandi for Mercedes to only unleash the partymode in Q3 session. Saving as much of the engine, to unleash as much power as possible for just 2 hot laps. But how can a driver like Hamilton prepare to exploit the extra power a good as possible?

I guess he just knows now, how much to back off, break earlier. Or would it be possible that the partymode is mapped in such a way, that it does not interfere with corner exit or topspeed before the braking point?

The so called “party mode” (free load mode – engine at max fuel flow, waste gates open, engine in electric supercharging mode, H and K sharing battery power) is mapped-in and operates in accordance with driver throttle demands, as like all other engine maps, selectable from on steering wheel, it is mapped circuit specific.

[NL_Fer]

That is normal qualifing mode, they use this for every stint in Q1, 2 and 3. But they use the most agressive version of it only in Q3, most of the time. Mercedes (and Ferrari also this year) are 0.3-0.5s faster in Q3. Drivers must anticipate for this.

[saviour stivala]

That is normal qualifing mode, they use this for every stint in Q1, 2 and 3. But they use the most agressive version of it only in Q3, most of the time. Mercedes (and Ferrari also this year) are 0.3-0.5s faster in Q3. Drivers must anticipate for this.

So according to you Mercedes have two versions of “free load mode”, one more aggressive than the other! Maybe you care to explain how the more aggressive version works.

[muramasa]

There may be more than one quali mode, I cannot remember where I read it but these PUs have dozen modes for races, and take combustion timing of ICE as example, the step between timing for absolute max power mode and timing for FP mode is seamless, so there can be, repeat there can be, "absolute max" and "just tad bit less than absolute max", for instance.

But in general, why they always go boom fast in Q3 is mainly tyre choice factor and track rubbering in. Those who made it to Q3 start the race on tyre with which you qualified in Q2, and top 3 teams occasionally go for 2nd softest tyre in Q2, which exaggerate time gain in Q3 for them, that's one thing. The other thing is rubbering in, even Toro Rosso Honda improve time a lot in Q3 from Q2 when they make it through, those midfielders (FI, Renault, McLaren, STR, Haas, etc) always go through to Q3 by going for absolute max (max PU mode with softest tyre) in Q2 already, yet they too still go even much faster in Q3 (not always tho, because those midfielders tend to choose not attack in Q3 but save tyre for race instead). There is no way those midfielders are saving anything in Q2 (actually this can be tricky too, some teams can choose to start from 11th or 12th deliberately to make race strategy open, but anyway in general midfielders go max in Q2), that's due to rubbering in.

Top 3 teams may indeed be saving PU to some extent in Q2, that itself is rational thought, but dont forget the tyre and rubbering in factors.

[Big Tea]

They possibly also need to consider the consequences of engine damage in each of the sessions?.
Kill something in Q1 and that is where you start, including any penalties. Must be 'safe' to get into Q2.
Q2 probably more about tyres , but still a need to make it to Q3. 'safe'.

Q3, they still do not want the engine wrecked, but if they do there is overnight to fix it, and the better their position when it lets go, the less they lose due to a change. 'worth some risk'?

[saviour stivala]

There may be more than one quali mode, I cannot remember where I read it but these PUs have dozen modes for races, and take combustion timing of ICE as example, the step between timing for absolute max power mode and timing for FP mode is seamless, so there can be, repeat there can be, "absolute max" and "just tad bit less than absolute max", for instance.

But in general, why they always go boom fast in Q3 is mainly tyre choice factor and track rubbering in. Those who made it to Q3 start the race on tyre with which you qualified in Q2, and top 3 teams occasionally go for 2nd softest tyre in Q2, which exaggerate time gain in Q3 for them, that's one thing. The other thing is rubbering in, even Toro Rosso Honda improve time a lot in Q3 from Q2 when they make it through, those midfielders (FI, Renault, McLaren, STR, Haas, etc) always go through to Q3 by going for absolute max (max PU mode with softest tyre) in Q2 already, yet they too still go even much faster in Q3 (not always tho, because those midfielders tend to choose not attack in Q3 but save tyre for race instead). There is no way those midfielders are saving anything in Q2 (actually this can be tricky too, some teams can choose to start from 11th or 12th deliberately to make race strategy open, but anyway in general midfielders go max in Q2), that's due to rubbering in.

Top 3 teams may indeed be saving PU to some extent in Q2, that itself is rational thought, but dont forget the tyre and rubbering in factors.

There is only one “free load mode” there cannot be less or more aggressive versions because the engine is operated at maximum power output possible. “at max fuel flow, with waste gates open, in electric supercharging mode, with H and K sharing battery power”. This mode was designed into these engines at the engine design stage.

[henry]

There may be more than one quali mode, I cannot remember where I read it but these PUs have dozen modes for races, and take combustion timing of ICE as example, the step between timing for absolute max power mode and timing for FP mode is seamless, so there can be, repeat there can be, "absolute max" and "just tad bit less than absolute max", for instance.

But in general, why they always go boom fast in Q3 is mainly tyre choice factor and track rubbering in. Those who made it to Q3 start the race on tyre with which you qualified in Q2, and top 3 teams occasionally go for 2nd softest tyre in Q2, which exaggerate time gain in Q3 for them, that's one thing. The other thing is rubbering in, even Toro Rosso Honda improve time a lot in Q3 from Q2 when they make it through, those midfielders (FI, Renault, McLaren, STR, Haas, etc) always go through to Q3 by going for absolute max (max PU mode with softest tyre) in Q2 already, yet they too still go even much faster in Q3 (not always tho, because those midfielders tend to choose not attack in Q3 but save tyre for race instead). There is no way those midfielders are saving anything in Q2 (actually this can be tricky too, some teams can choose to start from 11th or 12th deliberately to make race strategy open, but anyway in general midfielders go max in Q2), that's due to rubbering in.

Top 3 teams may indeed be saving PU to some extent in Q2, that itself is rational thought, but dont forget the tyre and rubbering in factors.

There is only one “free load mode” there cannot be less or more aggressive versions because the engine is operated at maximum power output possible. “at max fuel flow, with waste gates open, in electric supercharging mode, with H and K sharing battery power”. This mode was designed into these engines at the engine design stage.

Read @muramasa’s post carefully. Within your “free load mode” the parameters for ignition and injection timing can vary, some of those variations will produce more power but do more “damage”. Damage doesn’t mean catastrophic breakage, it means reduce the service life of the ICE.

Of course, as you say, the mode is designed in, but the parameters within the mode can vary, it is to this that I think @muramasa is referring.

It is entirely possible that there is a menu selection for the number of damage events in a lap and the ECU software will choose the timing parameters to achieve that.

[saviour stivala]

technically speaking the only thing of chose is to use or not to use the "free load mode", having two versions one more powerful than the other to limit wear and tear does not make sense. read carefully before trying to push something out "free load mode = engine at max fuel flow, with waste gates open and in electric supercharging mode, with H and K sharing battery power".

[Phil]

There may be more than one quali mode, I cannot remember where I read it but these PUs have dozen modes for races, and take combustion timing of ICE as example, the step between timing for absolute max power mode and timing for FP mode is seamless, so there can be, repeat there can be, "absolute max" and "just tad bit less than absolute max", for instance.

But in general, why they always go boom fast in Q3 is mainly tyre choice factor and track rubbering in. Those who made it to Q3 start the race on tyre with which you qualified in Q2, and top 3 teams occasionally go for 2nd softest tyre in Q2, which exaggerate time gain in Q3 for them, that's one thing. The other thing is rubbering in, even Toro Rosso Honda improve time a lot in Q3 from Q2 when they make it through, those midfielders (FI, Renault, McLaren, STR, Haas, etc) always go through to Q3 by going for absolute max (max PU mode with softest tyre) in Q2 already, yet they too still go even much faster in Q3 (not always tho, because those midfielders tend to choose not attack in Q3 but save tyre for race instead). There is no way those midfielders are saving anything in Q2 (actually this can be tricky too, some teams can choose to start from 11th or 12th deliberately to make race strategy open, but anyway in general midfielders go max in Q2), that's due to rubbering in.

Top 3 teams may indeed be saving PU to some extent in Q2, that itself is rational thought, but dont forget the tyre and rubbering in factors.

The tire difference is the obvious factor yes, but if the top 3 teams are nearly a second faster than the rest, they can actually afford to drive with more margin and less potent modes during Q1 and Q2. In Q1, I'm fairly certain they maybe even fuel them slightly more in case they end up in traffic and need to do another lap. Obviously, in Q3 this is not necessary as there are only at max 10 cars on the road and you can account for traffic pretty good.

In Q3, the pressure is off and they get 2 runs (mostly), so it represents the best they can possibly achieve on tires that are usually not used during the race anymore.

[henry]

technically speaking the only thing of chose is to use or not to use the "free load mode", having two versions one more powerful than the other to limit wear and tear does not make sense. read carefully before trying to push something out "free load mode = engine at max fuel flow, with waste gates open and in electric supercharging mode, with H and K sharing battery power".

I give up.

[saviour stivala]

'Free load mode" is a mode intended to extract the maximum power output possible, so what is the scope of there being two versions, one more powerful than the other?.

[hurril]

'Free load mode" is a mode intended to extract the maximum power output possible, so what is the scope of there being two versions, one more powerful than the other?.

Do you think more power is better or worse in a race car?