2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[chrisc90]

On 2 occasions




Maybe you will be oblivious to that aswell

[Jozsusz]

On 2 occasions




Maybe you will be oblivious to that aswell

Oh, really?




**mod edit - removed offensive language**

[chrisc90]

Who mentioned previous seasons? I said this season alone.

[xaero]

Who mentioned previous seasons? I said this season alone.

So what these videos prove? Hamilton at fault? And no I was not trying to become clever, I was just trying ask data in real context, but then it is very difficult for fans of a certain driver to engage brain. So, be in your world and keep posting rubbish in this thread.

[chrisc90]

Who mentioned previous seasons? I said this season alone.

So what these videos prove? Hamilton at fault? And no I was not trying to become clever, I was just trying ask data in real context, but then it is very difficult for fans of a certain driver to engage brain. So, be in your world and keep posting rubbish in this thread.

Go back and read what was said and have a think.

Someone said that merc shaved 5kg off as the front wing was over built to withstand contact from close racing with Max from previous seasons.

Now they not racing with Max they can lighten it, But I said it’s still Hamilton who have been involved in the most contact between drivers irrespective of fault.

Not sure which part your missing/failing to understand.

[Andi76]

Glad you know better than F1 engineers!!

I do not want to get into this discussion, but at the moment i would not blindly trust the engineers of Mercedes as porpoising has become a political thing. And because of negative implications on their performance when they are forced to raise the ride height - no Mercedes engineer would admit its porpoising. So at the moment - i think it is not wrong to doubt what Mercedes engineers say in that regard and put more trust into ones own eyes.

Right, but every team was having the problem in Baku, even RBR to a lesser extent and multiple times we heard people talk about it not being porpoising.

Also, you argument means it would have been FAVOURABLE for Merc engineers to blame porpoising for the problems.

Not after FIA threathened that the ride heights have to be raised. That would cost them a lot of laptime. And immediately after that was the way the FIA said it will be handled - they said porpoising is "cured". So sorry, but no, it would not be favorable for Mercedes. Indeed it would hurt them more than any other team, as the performance of their car is highly dependant to be run as low as possible.

[motosubatsu]

I do not want to get into this discussion, but at the moment i would not blindly trust the engineers of Mercedes as porpoising has become a political thing. And because of negative implications on their performance when they are forced to raise the ride height - no Mercedes engineer would admit its porpoising. So at the moment - i think it is not wrong to doubt what Mercedes engineers say in that regard and put more trust into ones own eyes.

Right, but every team was having the problem in Baku, even RBR to a lesser extent and multiple times we heard people talk about it not being porpoising.

Also, you argument means it would have been FAVOURABLE for Merc engineers to blame porpoising for the problems.

Not after FIA threathened that the ride heights have to be raised. That would cost them a lot of laptime. And immediately after that was the way the FIA said it will be handled - they said porpoising is "cured". So sorry, but no, it would not be favorable for Mercedes. Indeed it would hurt them more than any other team, as the performance of their car is highly dependant to be run as low as possible.

Except the FIA's TD doesn't care what the "source" of the oscillations are - only the G-forces involved on the driver. So whether it's from porpoising, mechanical bouncing or a set of ACME-brand pogo sticks it doesn't matter, therefore trying to re-brand what the cause is wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference.

Additionally the talk of mechanical bouncing (as opposed to porpoising) has been the Mercedes line since Monaco i.e. two races before then talk of raising ride heights. So your interpretation makes even less sense.

[carisi2k]

Right, but every team was having the problem in Baku, even RBR to a lesser extent and multiple times we heard people talk about it not being porpoising.

Also, you argument means it would have been FAVOURABLE for Merc engineers to blame porpoising for the problems.

Not all the teams were having the same problem at Baku. The Red and Silver cars are still porpoising in addition to also bottoming out on bumps which is why Lewis got a numb back in Baku. The TV vision still shows the W13 porpoising.

The Mclaren, Red Bull and Alpine were just hitting the bumps but still handling it better then the W13 because they have a little more suspension play because they have a higher ride height. As I have shown in either this thread or the canadian gp thread where I posted some links there is a clear difference between what the silver car is doing and what the blue car is doing. The w13 is clearly sill porpoising as you can see in this video of George.

[Andi76]

Right, but every team was having the problem in Baku, even RBR to a lesser extent and multiple times we heard people talk about it not being porpoising.

Also, you argument means it would have been FAVOURABLE for Merc engineers to blame porpoising for the problems.

Not after FIA threathened that the ride heights have to be raised. That would cost them a lot of laptime. And immediately after that was the way the FIA said it will be handled - they said porpoising is "cured". So sorry, but no, it would not be favorable for Mercedes. Indeed it would hurt them more than any other team, as the performance of their car is highly dependant to be run as low as possible.

Except the FIA's TD doesn't care what the "source" of the oscillations are - only the G-forces involved on the driver. So whether it's from porpoising, mechanical bouncing or a set of ACME-brand pogo sticks it doesn't matter, therefore trying to re-brand what the cause is wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference.

Additionally the talk of mechanical bouncing (as opposed to porpoising) has been the Mercedes line since Monaco i.e. two races before then talk of raising ride heights. So your interpretation makes even less sense.

Yes, but they did not know that the FIA would not care.... and so trying to avoid what hurts you more than other - makes a lot of sense. What is pretty much what every team principal, engineer and F1 expert also suggested to be behind Mercedes' "cure", next to Mercedes trying to influence FIA to make a rule change, reducing ground effect(what they blame to be responsible for the problems)or/and allow hydraulic suspension(an area where they were leading the field). And all this indeed makes a lot of sense, what you can easily see by almost everyone in F1 thinking like that.

However - all this is off-topic and belongs to the Team-Topic.

[carisi2k]

The thing is that Mercedes haven't really been able to raise the ride height because it would seem they are running quite a stiff and restrictive suspension setup which is why they are suffering the most with these back issues.

The reason Lewis and George are so outspoken and want the rules to change mid season to allow hydraulic or active suspension is because they know that Mercedes screwed up and they are trying to get a helping hand for free by calling for this rule change. If the FIA comes out and says it is now ok to have the hydraulic suspension back then they could gain quite a bit for not having to spend that much on a more sophisticated mechanical setup that other teams have.

Thankfully the FIA are seeing through this ruse and are telling Mercedes that they need to come up with a solution just as the other teams have.

[Big Tea]

Absolutely, any parts they add to the car that do not work are valuable to a certain extent.

“I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.”

Thomas Edison

Well, I was trying to see the positives....

My first draft was going to be that Williams have been "learning the wrong way to go" for years...

I suppose the key is learning from the mistakes and not making the same ones, rather than discarding the knowledge and taking nothing from it.

[AeroDynamic]

its not odd that Max has less contact this season when he was stripped of his 'let em race' pass to crash all season last year. The rules have been positioned in a way to make it sport again and its not odd when you remind yourself he has the most points on his license at the moment. He's wising up not to get a DSQ for reaching 12 points. So it actually makes a lot of sense, if you watch the races since before this season.

[Ryar]

its not odd that Max has less contact this season when he was stripped of his 'let em race' pass to crash all season last year. The rules have been positioned in a way to make it sport again and its not odd when you remind yourself he has the most points on his license at the moment. He's wising up not to get a DSQ for reaching 12 points. So it actually makes a lot of sense, if you watch the races since before this season.

I am happy people are liking a calm Max and I hope the competitiveness of grid remains the same to keep it that way and we enjoy F1 more than argy bargy. We all like a good environment.

[Quantum]

Who mentioned previous seasons? I said this season alone.

The Canadian example was stretching it don't you think?
And would you say that contact should be listed against a driver when another driver has been adjudicated to be at fault, as in the Ocon example?
That leaves Spain, which was a racing incident at most(Kmag later agreed with it) and judged to have been that by the FIA.

I'd say any list would need to reflect the reason for contact, and who was adjudged to be at fault.
Otherwise we just have one less data point to build a narrative that would be innacurate.

[Quantum]

its not odd that Max has less contact this season when he was stripped of his 'let em race' pass to crash all season last year. The rules have been positioned in a way to make it sport again and its not odd when you remind yourself he has the most points on his license at the moment. He's wising up not to get a DSQ for reaching 12 points. So it actually makes a lot of sense, if you watch the races since before this season.

I am happy people are liking a calm Max and I hope the competitiveness of grid remains the same to keep it that way and we enjoy F1 more than argy bargy. We all like a good environment.

Wouldn't you be calm if the car you were driving had won 6 races straight, and it was your team mate 2nd place in the table, and you're 2 race victories ahead of your next non RB challenger with less than half the season gone?

Thought Red Bull fans wanted competitive seasons....