2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

[diffuser]

I saw that all the PU Manufacturers are all investing in DeepDrive. DeepDrive are starting to manufacture a dual rotor electric motor. Thier electric motor's yoke is replaced by a 2nd rotor. It reduces the amount of magnetic material weight and cost. Wonder if they'll be using that in the MGU-K?

[Tommy Cookers]

I saw that all the PU Manufacturers are all investing in DeepDrive. DeepDrive are starting to manufacture a dual rotor electric motor. Thier electric motor's yoke is replaced by a 2nd rotor. It reduces the amount of magnetic material weight and cost. Wonder if they'll be using that in the MGU-K?

is that all the F1 PUs ?

an axial flux (ie disc-shaped) machine has inherently inferior response as the inertia is relatively greater
the F1 ideal is a PU response of a few milliseconds - or lap-time losses could accumulate with each up-shift
EDITED for 2026 the K machine has more influence (than before) over the 'upshift-lazy' ICE so shifts are presumably ok

yes of course the more future F1 is to resemble EVs the more attractive the DD etc approach will become
this might explain the alternative MGU-K locations now allowed

[diffuser]

I saw that all the PU Manufacturers are all investing in DeepDrive. DeepDrive are starting to manufacture a dual rotor electric motor. Thier electric motor's yoke is replaced by a 2nd rotor. It reduces the amount of magnetic material weight and cost. Wonder if they'll be using that in the MGU-K?

is that all the F1 PUs ?

an axial flux (ie disc-shaped) machine has inherently inferior response as the inertia is relatively greater
F1 needs a PU response of a few milliseconds - otherwise lap-time losses will accumulate with each shift

yes of course the more future F1 is to resemble EVs the more attractive the DD etc approach will become

Sorry, yes all F1 PU Manufacturers.

[vorticism]

I saw that all the PU Manufacturers are all investing in DeepDrive. DeepDrive are starting to manufacture a dual rotor electric motor. Thier electric motor's yoke is replaced by a 2nd rotor. It reduces the amount of magnetic material weight and cost. Wonder if they'll be using that in the MGU-K?

is that all the F1 PUs ?

an axial flux (ie disc-shaped) machine has inherently inferior response as the inertia is relatively greater
F1 needs a PU response of a few milliseconds - otherwise lap-time losses will accumulate with each shift

yes of course the more future F1 is to resemble EVs the more attractive the DD etc approach will become

DeepDrive's is a radial flux motor with two rotors spinning coaxially about a shared, sandwiched stator winding. Twice the rotor-stator surface interface area. Brilliant power-densifying design. I had toyed around with a similar design once but was then reminded of the time-honored engineering tradition: Germans already thought of it.

[FW17]

An high torque ultra light motor

[gruntguru]

The windings can only be supported at one end due to the dual rotor design. Their triangulated copper windings self-support under magnetic loads - brilliant.

[saviour stivala]

The choice of MGU-K motor is driven by the need to minimize weight and packaging size. The current axial flux design is more compact and lightweight solution that fits the overall design requirements of the car. The formula 1 manufacturers do not use the radial flux twin rotor motor for the MGU-K due to a combination of existing design constraints, the physical demands of the current axial flux configuration. specifically, the MGU-K placement at the front of the engine to connect to the crankshaft is more practical and lightweight.

[Tommy Cookers]

... The current axial flux design is more compact and lightweight solution that fits the overall design requirements of the car.
The formula 1 manufacturers do not use the radial flux twin rotor motor for the MGU-K due to a combination of existing design constraints, the physical demands of the current axial flux configuration. specifically, the MGU-K placement at the front of the engine to connect to the crankshaft is more practical and lightweight.

"the current axial flux design is ... "
so the 2014-2025 (ie 120 kW) MGU-K is axial flux ??

I expect an axial flux MG machine to be disc-shaped (pizza) and a radial flux machine to be cylinder-shaped (salami)
regardless of the flux orientation, the DeepDrive machine is rather disc-shaped
a disc-shaped machine will have more rotational inertia (and translational inertia ie 'weight' is unimportant)
so more energy will be required for acceleration - and more energy is stored in the rotation (think 60000 rpm)
(and the bigger MG helps the 2026 PU to be better suited to upshifting than the 2014-2025 PU)

as filling and emptying this energy store doesn't depend on tyre grip ...
perhaps they will mass-garnish the rotating parts - and Pirelli could blend tungsten powder into the tyre rubber mix ?


btw the site that was linked regarding DD also has information on the Ferrari EV 'motor'
even covering fake engine noise and fake gear-shifts

[saviour stivala]

Looks like for 2026 the axial flux type is still the prefered choice of motor by the formula 1 manufacturers.