2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

[Mansell89]

Has anyone got to the bottom of why Ron Dennis and Mansour Ojjeh fell out?

It's almost not talked about across the internet! Been reading up but nothing other than what we already know- they fell out and eventually Ron was outvoted.

[Pierce89]

Has anyone got to the bottom of why Ron Dennis and Mansour Ojjeh fell out?

It's almost not talked about across the internet! Been reading up but nothing other than what we already know- they fell out and eventually Ron was outvoted.

According to Motorsportmagazine.com it was:
Because Ojjeh didn't vote with Ron about whether to go to Bahrain during the Arab spring. He was contractually obligated to vote with Ron in the MTG but the chairman of the board(rotating but Ojjeh at that time) then got a second "tiebreaker" vote as chair and didnt vote with Ron.

[Manoah2u]

Has anyone got to the bottom of why Ron Dennis and Mansour Ojjeh fell out?

It's almost not talked about across the internet! Been reading up but nothing other than what we already know- they fell out and eventually Ron was outvoted.

According to Motorsportmagazine.com it was:
Because Ojjeh didn't vote with Ron about whether to go to Bahrain during the Arab spring. He was contractually obligated to vote with Ron in the MTG but the chairman of the board(rotating but Ojjeh at that time) then got a second "tiebreaker" vote as chair and didnt vote with Ron.

am I the only one who doesn't get a single spat of what this means?

[diffuser]

Hard to read cause of all the colours but we if look at the top speed of Q3 ...looks like McHonda split the 2 STRs

Yup, also less than 1kmh slower than RBR. But I think S3 is distorted as discussed on the other thread

And 4 less that Magnusson. Those 4 kmhs are all Xtra DF that RBR are running.

[Alonso Fan]

Hard to read cause of all the colours but we if look at the top speed of Q3 ...looks like McHonda split the 2 STRs

Yup, also less than 1kmh slower than RBR. But I think S3 is distorted as discussed on the other thread

And 4 less that Magnusson. Those 4 kmhs are all Xtra DF that RBR are running.

You mean drag. Downforce has minimal effect on straight line speed. It's down to the drag.

Obviously when generating more downforce you get more drag. But I thought I'd make it clear. Sorry I'm a bit pedantic sometimes

[mrluke]

You're better off comparing speeds at the S1 split, S3 looks to be more impacted by energy deployment strategy. I dont agree that the 4kmh are due to extra drag, its due to a different choice at where to use the energy. At S1 all of the teams / drivers look to be using the full deployment for that straight.

S1 speeds as follows:

S1

Code: Select all

RAI	340.9
WEH	338.3
PAL	337.3
OCO	336.5
GRO	336.4
ROS	336.4
MAS	336.3
HAM	336.3
VET	336.3
ERI	335.9
GUT	335.2
PER	335.1
NAS	334.9
BOT	334.8
HUL	334.4
ALO	333.9
BUT	333.7
MAG	333.5
RIC	332.9
VES	332.5
KVY	330.5
SAI	328.9

All of the speeds are very close except for TR which are hanging out of the bottom.

To clarify, I said that Mclaren attempted to move away from a peaky car, but they were too uncompetitive so they went back to what they know. I still think they have one of the peakiest car but I expect they are trying to move away from this.

[Alonso Fan]

There's more than 4kph between both Ferraris and almost 5kph difference between the fastest and slowest Renault. And raikkonen is more than 2kph clear of the next car while toro rosso are 2kph down on the next car.

Proves my point. STR have a high drag high downforce chassis and a weak engine. And McLaren can beat red bull on straight line speed due to their development being focused on efficient downforce. And red bull produces more downforce and drag than McLaren so that makes sense..

McLaren did say that they could stick a host of parts on the car which would give them more downforce but didn't because their engine is weak.

I still think Honda's engine is only better than the Ferrari 2015 engine. I dont think its quite on the level of Renault yet. Although it would be really really interesting to see another team running it

[GoranF1]

There's more than 4kph between both Ferraris and almost 5kph difference between the fastest and slowest Renault. And raikkonen is more than 2kph clear of the next car while toro rosso are 2kph down on the next car.

Proves my point. STR have a high drag high downforce chassis and a weak engine. And McLaren can beat red bull on straight line speed due to their development being focused on efficient downforce. And red bull produces more downforce and drag than McLaren so that makes sense..

McLaren did say that they could stick a host of parts on the car which would give them more downforce but didn't because their engine is weak.

I still think Honda's engine is only better than the Ferrari 2015 engine. I dont think its quite on the level of Renault yet. Although it would be really really interesting to see another team running it

Is Honda better than 2015 Ferrari in peak power or effciency?

[mrluke]

There's more than 4kph between both Ferraris and almost 5kph difference between the fastest and slowest Renault. And raikkonen is more than 2kph clear of the next car while toro rosso are 2kph down on the next car.

What is your point exactly? The Ferrari drivers and the renault drivers chose slightly difference setups to one another, what does that prove?

Proves my point. STR have a high drag high downforce chassis and a weak engine. And McLaren can beat red bull on straight line speed due to their development being focused on efficient downforce. And red bull produces more downforce and drag than McLaren so that makes sense..

STR have the weakest engine full stop.

Mclaren are faster than RBR in a straight line because they run less drag? If that is true then why are they slower than RBR across the start/finish line?

Code: Select all

	S3
OCO	339.9
PER	337.5
ROS	336.2
HUL	335.0
RAI	334.9
HAM	334.1
VET	334.1
WEH	333.2
MAS	332.8
GRO	332.6
NAS	332.0
MAG	331.5
GUT	330.6
ERI	330.3
BOT	330.2
PAL	330.2
VES	328.7
RIC	328.6
KVY	328.3
ALO	327.7
BUT	324.4
SAI		321.5

In fact Mclaren are now sitting towards the bottom of the speedtrap.

My proposal is that Mclaren make basically the same peak power as Renault 16, but their harvesting is not quite as good. Therefore Mclaren use full deployment on the first straight but have run out of available energy by the time they get to the finish line.

McLaren did say that they could stick a host of parts on the car which would give them more downforce but didn't because their engine is weak.

All of the teams would happily throw more downforce on the car if they could get more power, this isn't unique to Mclaren. It is at odds with how Mclaren struggle to perform at the high downforce tracks where engine power is less of an issue.

I still think Honda's engine is only better than the Ferrari 2015 engine. I dont think its quite on the level of Renault yet. Although it would be really really interesting to see another team running it

Pretty much agree, I think they are just about matching Renault in peak but its definitely still up for debate. Would love to see another team running the Honda.

[Alonso Fan]

When I said that there's more than 4kph difference between the Ferraris, I was meaning that setup dictates a lot more on top speed than you originally suggested. And I said it to back up my point that its very hard to gauge engine performance simply from top speeds because there are lots of factors which affect top speed

As for my second point you mentioned about McLaren vs RBR, you answered your question yourself. They're slower because of deployment. As for my comment about chassis, then I will repeat myself and say that yes McLaren have less drag than red bull and also less downforce.

[Goran2812]

Alonso to LMP1 with Porsche? http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/11/2 ... rsche.html

[Manoah2u]

Yeah, i'll take a trustworthy source with actual source material instead of some random website throwing things in the air.

[Lucky]

Agreed, I think the Honda is now broadly in line with the Renault. It's not quite as good as Mercedes or Ferrari, but it would be good enough to let RBR challenge for podiums..

Yusuke Hasegawa:

"We're number four," he told Autosport. "It is Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault and then Honda.
"We have a huge gap to Renault. I've been surprised by their progress. They have done a very good job.
"Next year, we're aiming to achieve the level of Mercedes engine.
"At this moment, I don't know if that is possible but that is our aim."

[Goran2812]

Yeah, i'll take a trustworthy source with actual source material instead of some random website throwing things in the air.

Well, you know what they say... Where's smoke, there's almost certainly a fire... We'll see...

[Vasconia]

Normal people probably can handle those moments, those drivers should can.

Anyone can handle those moments, and drivers do. But when into the cockpit there are much higher priorities than being polite with someone who has not been polite with you

I guess we give it more importance that the enginner actually gives

Actually it´s only you who give it any importance. That was exactly the point of the discussion

Perhaps because they are also an important part of the team. I never saw Michel being that rude, so it can be done, if there is a will of course....

Ron Dennis out... I would like to know what Alonso really thinks about this...