Nissan Motors car could double as house generator

[Richard]

The technology is expensive because it is new. Remember when computers, digital technologies and mobile phones were outrageously expensive? EV will go the same way, they'll be cheap within a decade.

As Chris pointed out, most journeys can already be completed by EV. As auotgyro has also pointed out, using EV to support a smart grid will significantly reduce the need for power production.

So even if you think global warming as complete nonsense, you can't deny that we are running out oil, that building less power stations, running smaller smarter power grids and reducing energy bills would be a good thing?

Edit to add - Yes electricity is not an energy source. It is merely a means of transporting and storing energy that has been harvested from nature.

[Edis]

The technology is expensive because it is new. Remember when computers, digital technologies and mobile phones were outrageously expensive? EV will go the same way, they'll be cheap within a decade.

As Chris pointed out, most journeys can already be completed by EV. As auotgyro has also pointed out, using EV to support a smart grid will significantly reduce the need for power production.

So even if you think global warming as complete nonsense, you can't deny that we are running out oil, that building less power stations, running smaller smarter power grids and reducing energy bills would be a good thing?

Edit to add - Yes electricity is not an energy source. It is merely a means of transporting and storing energy that has been harvested from nature.

Electric cars are expensive because they are new? You are not the first person to draw this incorrect conclusion. Contrary to popular belief the electric car have been around about as long as the ICE powered car. The electric motor and the battery both predate the internal combustion engine. So electric cars are not like computers and cellphones, instead they are a mature technology where development progess is slow.

"Smart grids" are one of those buzz words that some people treat like some kind of messiah. The fact is that for decades now we have used about 3 kWh of energy, mostly fossil, to produce 1 kWh of electricity. In about ten years time the situation will about the same, and so also in twenty years time. A smart grid is not going to "significantly reduce the need for power production".

Electricity is an energy carrier, so are liquid fuels like gasoline and diesel. Electricity is however not a means to store energy. Electricity must be consumed at the same time it is produced.

[Richard]

I was referring to the newness of mass production & use of electric cars (and associated technologies).

Apologies about my semantics, of course I should have refereed to storing electrical potential.

So is your point that there is no scope for improving the generation and distribution of electricity? That my 2 year old daughter will be in a world with identical electrical infrastructure when she reaches her middle age 4 decades from now?

[xxChrisxx]

I normally hate to do posts as to why you are completely and totally wrong, but.

Electric cars are expensive because they are new? You are not the first person to draw this incorrect conclusion. Contrary to popular belief the electric car have been around about as long as the ICE powered car. The electric motor and the battery both predate the internal combustion engine. So electric cars are not like computers and cellphones, instead they are a mature technology where development progess is slow.

Existing, and existing in a useful form due to materials are two seperate things.

EV have not had the developmenmt time or money spent of them becuase it was cheaper and easier to exploit fossil fuels. Now that's beggining to change, more focus is being shifted. With the price of fuel only going to go up, more and more will be spent on research. The pace of develpoment of EV is actually increasing. You can see with the rate of papers being produced on EV and associated technologies and materials research. You can also see it with the development of production vechcles.

"Smart grids" are one of those buzz words that some people treat like some kind of messiah. The fact is that for decades now we have used about 3 kWh of energy, mostly fossil, to produce 1 kWh of electricity. In about ten years time the situation will about the same, and so also in twenty years time. A smart grid is not going to "significantly reduce the need for power production".

What we are talking about is not a 'smart grid' it's a one way flow of electricity into batteries. So storage only, not feeding that back into the grid on demand.
Like recharging the batteries for your Gameboy, only on steriods.


Also, for information re: 'Smart Grids'r
The National Grid have currently completed a 5 year upgrade of the gas network, and are beginning a 12 (iirc) year upgrade of the electicity grid with a 'smart grid' as you put it specifically in mind.

The grid is currently tailored for several large single point generation, they are upgrading this to be able to handle multiple point generation and storage from renewables (offshore wind and tidal). This round of upgrades doesn't go as far 'down' the grid as EV sized storage, but going forward who knows. So not only is a smart grid technically possible, they are starting the first steps to it now.

[Edis]

So is your point that there is no scope for improving the generation and distribution of electricity? That my 2 year old daughter will be in a world with identical electrical infrastructure when she reaches her middle age 4 decades from now?

Improvements will be made step by step, yes, but don't expect a revolution. The power transmission lines we have today is basically an improvement of what we had 100 years ago (higher voltages for lower losses), and many of the lines in use today were built half a century ago. Indeed, grids and powerplants and have very long lifetimes; a powerplant that is built today will be around for many decades and they have to be as they are expensive to build. Future plants will certainly be more efficient and cause less pollutants, but the difference in terms of efficiency won't be mind blowing. The technology is too mature for that.

EV have not had the developmenmt time or money spent of them becuase it was cheaper and easier to exploit fossil fuels. Now that's beggining to change, more focus is being shifted. With the price of fuel only going to go up, more and more will be spent on research. The pace of develpoment of EV is actually increasing. You can see with the rate of papers being produced on EV and associated technologies and materials research. You can also see it with the development of production vechcles.

Just because you write more papers on the subject it doesn't mean electric cars themselves are going to get much better fast. The main components of electric cars such as inverters, motors and batteries are mature and a lot of R&D money have been spend on them for various applications. The inverter is probably the component that is the least mature of these three, but the main problem, the battery is a very mature technology that has a slow and steady development pace. Secondary batteries have after all been around for over a century.

More expensive fossil fuels also mean more money will be spent on developing more fuel efficient engines and renewable fuels, so this development isn't exclusive to electric cars.

What we are talking about is not a 'smart grid' it's a one way flow of electricity into batteries. So storage only, not feeding that back into the grid on demand.
Like recharging the batteries for your Gameboy, only on steriods.


Also, for information re: 'Smart Grids'r
The National Grid have currently completed a 5 year upgrade of the gas network, and are beginning a 12 (iirc) year upgrade of the electicity grid with a 'smart grid' as you put it specifically in mind.

The grid is currently tailored for several large single point generation, they are upgrading this to be able to handle multiple point generation and storage from renewables (offshore wind and tidal). This round of upgrades doesn't go as far 'down' the grid as EV sized storage, but going forward who knows. So not only is a smart grid technically possible, they are starting the first steps to it now.

Honestly, what is the point with this rant? Nothing will change the fact that electricity have to be produced and consumed at the same time.

[xxChrisxx]

Honestly, what is the point with this rant? Nothing will change the fact that electricity have to be produced and consumed at the same time.

The key is that it allows a balance of demand. Currently we have a huge excess of generating capabilities from during the night and have to use gas turbines (which are rather expensive to run) to keep up with peak demand.

The idea of local storage of x hours of energy, means that during excess generation batteries can be charged. During peak demand the house is run on batteries. Meaning you don't have to start up a bunch of expensive gas turbines.

More expensive fossil fuels also mean more money will be spent on developing more fuel efficient engines and renewable fuels, so this development isn't exclusive to electric cars.

Tipping point.