The curious case of Jenson Button

[JimClarkFan]

The car is harder to drive for Jenson? Maybe..

But I am gonna say it is in his head. All of it.

The car is arguable the fastest on the grid. He just can't drive it because of his weak mental state.

Whether he is not an adaptable thinker or whether he is intimidated into docility by the heavy competition, he will never bounce back until he transcends that weak mental cotton ball that Mclaren has wrapped him in over the years.

I have honestly no idea what you are talking about, or how you came to this conclusion. It's a case of Jenson being Jenson, i.e. not performing well unless he feels confident in the equipment beneath him. That's got nothing to do with being weak mentally, and everything to do how he likes to feel the car which seems absolute necessary for him to drive fast.

He works well in a very narrow car setup, he can't just get in any car and drive the thing, unlike Lewis or Fernando. And that, not his weak mental state, is his biggest flaw.

[raymondu999]

I'm sort of cottoning onto Smikle's reasoning. The best years of Jenson's career are arguably 2004, 2009, 2011, when the car has been "alone."

2004, the car was the fastest non-Ferrari, and Ferraris were out of reach, too far for Button to truly care about the reuslts the Ferrari got. 2009, ditto. Even then, when he slid down to his worst qualifying of the year in Silverstone, his form deteriorated, never getting another pole or win.

2011, the Ferrari was, on pace, no factor to the McLaren as a threat. The Red Bull too far ahead.

[PlatinumZealot]

Exactly what I was trying to say Raymond. He is mentally the Asafa Powell of F1.
He only shines in special circumstances.

Almost all of his wins at Mclaren have come when he is "alone" on strategy, on performance or on track. Conversely, he looses his nerves in close fist fights. And post Malaysia 2012... the Championship on one big dirty fist fight.

[JimClarkFan]

Hmmm interesting, I can actually see how you guys might think that, admittedly I cannot rule that possibility out but I can't say that I agree either. Brazil 2009 comes to mind when he qualified 14th, and moved up the field, but at the same time I suppose he should never have been in 14th to begin with as Barricello was pole.

I will look out for that though.

[ringo]

I vote that he is simply a second-tier driver behind the likes of Alonso, Vettel, and Hamilton. People have unreasonably high expectations.

More or less to me.
He's second tier, with lots of years of experience which allows him to mimic the top drawer guys.
His wins tend to come from his decision making more than his speed and adaptability. He needs an unfair or unforseen advantage to excel.
I figure he simply is a bit timid on the tyres. He has a fear of losing control of the car and binning it.
So he drives how he knows is best, no matter how much more potential the car has. He's not willing to take an unknown potential into unknown territory as it relates to driving.

I do agree with the "alone car" thing. I guess driving alone in clean air is more predictable and there is more control.
He excels not just when he is alone on track in terms of car pace, but also when he's alone on strategy. Most of his changing condition wins are like this.
2012 season is one where all the drivers are bunched up, crabs in a barrel. Only the fast will survive as each is copying the others stratgey to the tee. It's harder to break free and spring a surprise tactic like we saw last year with the cliff edge tyres.

[JayeOFarrell]

A few people have mentioned now that Jenson may be a "second tier driver" which I find extraordinary and unable to except because and for the simple fact that he is a world champion. Yes he may of had the fastest car but only arguably for the first 7 races and I can't think of many WC that didn't so he isn't unique in that respect. I can accept he is a little bit sensitive to the setup and feel of the car (consider Trulli). But I believe they have changed someone thing on the car that has just unsettled him, but I DO NOT think this warrants calling in to question the driving merits of the ex world champion. I just think that this is silly and everyone is jumping on the "lynch Jenson band wagon" because he has been off the pace.

[Red Schneider]

It's very simple. Alonso and Hamilton are probably two of the finest 15-20 drivers to ever grace the cockpit of a Formula 1 car. Vettel is certainly proving his worth as well - you can make a solid case he has been greater than Hamilton. Now, last I checked there were more than 20 world champions in the history of the sport.

Do you find it hard to accept that not all world champions are created equal?

[clarkiesyeah]

...everyone is jumping on the "lynch Jenson band wagon" because he has been off the pace.

I don't agree that there's a lynching going on. There is clearly something wrong with JB, as he himself said, he is lost and doesnt know why. This thread, by exploring the possible reasons for this career worst performance (relative to a team mate) was always going to ruffle some feathers, nevertheless, reasons there are. Whilst that remains the case, all suggestions are equally as valid, even those that aren't popular with some.

[raymondu999]

I hear AMuS is saying that McLaren had to change the front wing and floor after China, where the FIA said the front wing was flexing too much (the bottom of the endplates were massively scratched), and are saying this is the source of Button's troubles.

[PlatinumZealot]

So he needs illegal items to drive good?

[PlatinumZealot]

Sam Michael on Button's sensitivity.

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/new ... ish-Button

[myurr]

I hear AMuS is saying that McLaren had to change the front wing and floor after China, where the FIA said the front wing was flexing too much (the bottom of the endplates were massively scratched), and are saying this is the source of Button's troubles.

Well that's at least partially wrong as the front wing is still flexing all over the place. At one point during, I think, FP3 in Canada there was a slo-mo replay of Hamilton's car going through a corner with the front wing fluttering, rotating back and forth in a highish speed oscillation.

So with that amount of flex they can't have cracked down too much on McLaren.

[myurr]

Sam Michael on Button's sensitivity.

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/new ... ish-Button

An interesting read but mostly PR fluff in my opinion. Button himself has said that he's more sensitive to the car setup and especially balance than Lewis. He's also said he sometimes struggles to get heat into the tyres. If Button's style and setup were so similar they would have just copied Lewis's setup in Canada.

Is Button as sensitive as many make out, probably not even close. Something was seriously wrong his his setup in Canada that hampered him even on fresh tyres. But even allowing for that he hasn't been near his team mates pace since early in the season, especially in qualifying but even in the races as well where his natural style is supposed to be a huge benefit.

[mzivtins]

So easy for everyone to read into this season and start making cut and shut comments on driver abilities.

I just see it as a bad spell, just like lewis last year, where Button out drove him considerably.

but there were also bad points for button also in 2011. 2010 was a walk in the park for the first half of the season for both drivers, the f-duct was brilliant, but i still laugh at Lewis worrying at button passing him in turkey 2010

Looking back over the last 4 years, some of the most sensational drives have been from button, every race he has won has been an incredible one to watch... just like lewis in 2008, those were superb races.

Anyway, i think driving styles aren't the problem, Sam Michael said the one point we should be taking away, and that was the lack of testing in Canada. The team let button down, just like they did lewis so much last year (actually they let both of their drivers down last year)

But one thing that makes me red in the face with rage about McLaren, is the way the work with strategy, the drivers want the best strategy to work for THEM, yet mclaren even admit (Sam saying 'We just did what we thought the other teams would do') that all they do is knee-jerk react to other teams around them, which is why 9/10 red bull will beat mclaren on strategy at the moral expense of their drivers.

You have to ask the question, why is button not in a car that is how he likes to drive and lewis has his set up fine to his liking (or thereabouts)

Communications, i just feel McLaren as a team need to improve for the sake of both drivers.

One final point... it was clear to see that the rear tyres on buttons care were shot to sh1t much sooner than any other car out there... short of doing a few doughnuts or powerslides, i really can't see how the driver could cause that whilst going so slowly compared to the rest of the guys its pure setup, something is VERY wrong with what mclaran are doing in his setup it has been the same story all along, tyres going off almost right away for button.

[clarkiesyeah]

I just see it as a bad spell, just like lewis last year, where Button out drove him considerably.

As others have pointed out earlier in the thread, Lewis wasn't outdriven by Jenson last year, especially on out and out pace. I can see your angle, based on results and points, but we all know that was Lewis making daft errors, not losing his raw pace. This is very different.

Anyway, i think driving styles aren't the problem, Sam Michael said the one point we should be taking away, and that was the lack of testing in Canada. The team let button down

Had this been just Canada i could accept the whole "lack of running" hindering setup theory. Several races with full running friday and saturday followed by poor results doesn't make a "one off" in my book.

I'm eager to see Jenson back upto his best this weekend, my gut tells me that just isn't going to happen. Jenson seems to have got into his own head with selfdoubt, its written all over his body language at present.