Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 2013

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Nando
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Re: Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 2013

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raymondu999 wrote:I'll try to look for GP2 races though I'm not sure if any of the sites that mirror GP2 still will have them this late after the season. Anything in particular I should look out for? Is he for example always running out longer before pitstops? Or maybe doing the Prost thing by hanging back initially before pumping in some hot laps after?
I think it would be best if you get all of them.

No not really longer time out on track just keeps them in better condition which helps him in the final stages of his stints etc.
I guess a little bit like Prost in that way but i would still say Button is his closest driver in having the same characteristic,

it´s not super apparent but overall like Button you would say he can take care of his tires well.
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KATO
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Re: Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 2013

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Nando wrote:
raymondu999 wrote:I'll try to look for GP2 races though I'm not sure if any of the sites that mirror GP2 still will have them this late after the season. Anything in particular I should look out for? Is he for example always running out longer before pitstops? Or maybe doing the Prost thing by hanging back initially before pumping in some hot laps after?
I think it would be best if you get all of them.

No not really longer time out on track just keeps them in better condition which helps him in the final stages of his stints etc.
I guess a little bit like Prost in that way but i would still say Button is his closest driver in having the same characteristic,

it´s not super apparent but overall like Button you would say he can take care of his tires well.
Im very glad to see Button and Perez team up one older both similar in style Perez and Button can perfect their craft. Perez being a youngster will push with speed which is good for Button and He will in return will push Perez to be craftier and more technical clinical at what they both have an afinity towards. Also for the Engineers it's double data and this is good for the development of the car as similar style one goal one set up find the best at each race for each track. In practice 1 of each race and you'll be set quicker because you can literally split the workload and set them up faster then use the set up that seemed best on free practice 2 confirm and let them just learn the track on free practice 3.. Allready fully prepared in free practice 2.. I like this alot. It' really is going to be easier for the race engineers..
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raymondu999
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Re: Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 2013

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Do they share styles? Their steering movements are quite different. Perez hacksaws his steering into corners, Button almost just glides through.
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Glyn
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Re: Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 2013

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raymondu999 wrote:Do they share styles? Their steering movements are quite different. Perez hacksaws his steering into corners, Button almost just glides through.
The only time Perez ever doesn't move the steering wheel frantically is when he is trying to do a 1 stop race, and saving the tyres as much as possible.

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KATO
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Re: Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 2013

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That true Perez is a bit more agressive when he takes a series of corners sharper less smooth. But at Monaco he was quick so he's a bit more agressive but quik.. Maybe Button is a better tire saver then Perez.... At Autralia I'm going to be looking at who pits first and who's quicker towards the last 3 laps before making the pit..
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 2013

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Button is no tyre saver with the 2012 pirellis. He had overall shorter stints than HAM this year.
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KATO
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Re: Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 2013

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n smikle wrote:Button is no tyre saver with the 2012 pirellis. He had overall shorter stints than HAM this year.
That i did not Pay attention to this would make button less of a tire saver then Perez because Perez effective maid fewer stops then most drivers on any given race day or longer stints.
The funny thing is I kind of just assumed that Button was a tire saver...... Once he said that if HE drove like Perez he wouldn't be able to save his tires like he does(or doesn't) I'm so confused.. Can we compare data on Button Vs Perez on same race days how long it took them to make a first pit stop compared to each other.. and maybe also look at how Hamilton and Kamui did on the same race days as datum points-?! Anyone..
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ajdavison2
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Re: Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 2013

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Wasn't it that Button's style did not allow him to generate sufficient heat in the tyres, and they were therefore not giving the 'bite' and sliding across the track causing wear?

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KATO
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Re: Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 2013

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The more time passes the more I think Button is like Prost..
Very clean and technical "smooth" could they maybe make the car quicker to get the tires to temperature for Buttons style-?? Would that be a way to go? But couldn't Button just learn to get the tires upto Temperature first like Alonso and then after the tires are at the decired temperature then could he go back into his style-??
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raymondu999
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Re: Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 2013

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Was it the fronts not coming to temperature, or the fronts overheating that hurt him?

I have heard in the past that the Button school of driving, the "conventional racing line" as it were - is actually the worse style for the Pirelli fronts, because although the fronts are probably subjected to less peak slip angle/peak energy input, because they're holding the constant arc for longer, that hurts the fronts more as the total net energy input through the corner is higher.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 2013

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On the topic of tyre saving here is the tyre stint data for dry races. Some cases the leading driver pits first or 2nd, some cases the driver is in dirty air... so a lot factors contribute to tyre saving. In general the tyre saving skill is sorta pointless with all these factors affecting tyre life even if its only going to make the tyres last one extra lap.

You can see that Button was not able to extract more life out of the 2012 dry tyres than other drivers:

USA
Lewis Hamilton Medium (20) Hard (36)
Jenson Button Hard (35) Medium (21)

INDIA
Lewis Hamilton Soft (32) Hard (28)
Jenson Button Soft (25) Hard (35)

JAPAN
Jenson Button Soft (13) Hard (22) Hard (18)
Lewis Hamilton Soft (16) Hard (15) Hard (22)

SINGAPORE
Lewis Hamilton Super soft (12) Soft (10)
Jenson Button Super soft (14) Soft (19) Soft (26)

ITALY
Lewis Hamilton Medium (23) Hard (30)
Jenson Button Medium (22) Hard (10)

HUNGARY
Lewis Hamilton Soft (18) Medium (22) Medium (29)
Jenson Button Soft (15) Medium (19) Soft (11) Medium (24)

BRITAIN
Lewis Hamilton Hard (21) Soft (7) Hard (24)
Jenson Button Hard (16) Soft (15) Hard (21)

VALENCIA
Lewis Hamilton Soft (13) Medium (15) Medium (27)
Jenson Button Soft (10) Medium (16) Medium (31)

CANADA
Lewis Hamilton Super soft (17) Soft (33) Soft (20)
Jenson Button Soft (15) Super soft (18) Super soft (19) Soft (17)

MONACO
Lewis Hamilton Super soft (29) Soft (49)
Jenson Button Soft (38) Super soft (32)

SPAIN
Lewis Hamilton Soft (14) Hard (21) Hard (31)
Jenson Button Soft (9) Hard (16) Soft (13) Hard (28)

BAHRAIN
Lewis Hamilton Soft (9) Medium (14) Medium (13) Medium (21)
Jenson Button Soft (8) Medium (14) Medium (15) Medium (16) Soft (2) (Exhaust problem)

CHINA
Jenson Button Soft (11) Soft (13) Medium (15) Medium (17)
Lewis Hamilton Soft (10) Soft (12) Medium (16) Medium (18)

Australia
Jenson Button Soft (16) Medium (20) Medium (22)
Lewis Hamilton Soft (17) Medium (19) Medium (22)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Button's skill could not work on the 2012 Pirelli's in the dry.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

WET RACES

MALAYSIA
Lewis Hamilton Intermediate (5) Wet (9) Intermediate (27) Medium (15)
Jenson Button Intermediate (4) Wet (9) Intermediate (2) Intermediate (9) Intermediate (15) Medium (17)

BRAZIL
Lewis Hamilton Medium (10) Intermediate (8) Hard (36)
Jenson Button Medium (23) Hard (34) Intermediate (14)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Button is very good on using slicks in wet conditions. Maybe his smooth style makes him good on a slippery tyre? Not enough races with slicks in damp conditions in a season though.
Last edited by PlatinumZealot on 05 Jan 2013, 23:14, edited 1 time in total.
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raymondu999
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Re: Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 2013

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n smikle wrote:MALAYSIA
Jenson Button Soft (16) Medium (20) Medium (22)
Lewis Hamilton Soft (17) Medium (19) Medium (22)
I think you mean Melbourne?
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 2013

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Thanks, I edited it.

Going by the data, Perez might be better than Button with the tyres this year.
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NathanOlder
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Re: Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 2013

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But surely its impossible to compare 2 drivers on tyres who are driving different cars ?
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 2013

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Just saying Button is not special with making the tyres last, so even if Checo is not special either, there is a 50/50 chance he might be better than Button at making the tyres last.
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