Making a Wind Tunnel.

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bodnarjw
bodnarjw
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Joined: 23 Jan 2013, 19:57

Re: Making a Wind Tunnel.

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I've seen some of the crisitsms of teh design and yes, it has it's short comings, but as a former Wind tunnel test director, let me just say that I applaud the effort and I think it will do what it is intended to do. It will offer some comparitive results and highlight or identify trends. You may not get accurate numbers, but hopefully, it is precise enough to serve its purpose. Good luck in your tests. We look forward to seeing your results.

-J

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NathanOlder
48
Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 10:05
Location: Kent

Re: Making a Wind Tunnel.

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bodnarjw wrote:I've seen some of the crisitsms of teh design and yes, it has it's short comings, but as a former Wind tunnel test director, let me just say that I applaud the effort and I think it will do what it is intended to do. It will offer some comparitive results and highlight or identify trends. You may not get accurate numbers, but hopefully, it is precise enough to serve its purpose. Good luck in your tests. We look forward to seeing your results.

-J
Thank you very much.
GoLandoGo
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gixxer_drew
gixxer_drew
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Joined: 31 Jul 2010, 18:17
Location: Yokohama, Japan

Re: Making a Wind Tunnel.

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Sombrero wrote:As a child, Yoshi Suzuka, father of the dominant Nissan GTPs, daydreamed about airplanes, rockets and trains.
Lately Suzuka made a miniature toy windtunnel, but turned out more than a just a toy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpMOpyLbjcA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1IIMFOFpjU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww29IAN6neM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpzRPfd9XkM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYmsFAGXn-A

More about Yoshi Suzuka : http://www.mulsannescorner.com/nissanp35story.html
That project has now evolved into a small scale moving belt project currently going through the painstaking process of solving all the flow and instrumentation problems. The small scale of the "office sized" tunnel makes some things very difficult but we are slowly working our way up to the accuracy/repeatability goals for the 1/18th scale tunnel.

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P.S.
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Joined: 23 Oct 2011, 17:09
Location: Germany

Re: Making a Wind Tunnel.

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This is great! =D>
I also do model aircraft stuff and had to smile seeing the propellers. I ever wanted to build my own windtunnel. It was a dream of mine a long time but never did it.

Also tried to help a friend of mine with some aero tweaks on his 1/8 flat track. And we noticed that the aero balance could really make quite a huge difference controlling the car at about 80 - 120 kph.

Today I´m pretty into this aerodynamic stuff and working with a windtunnel and CFD. And I can tell you sometimes the big guys also have problems getting accurate results. :shock: I think even your self made windtunnel can give you lots of informations.

I like to tell some words how the big guys are doing their windtunnels. I don´t want to critisize your project. You really did a great job, but maybe this helps you a bit.

- The propeller is pulling behind the measuring track, this reduces turbulence and makes the air hitting the test object more homogenous.
- The section where you straighten the air is usually much bigger in area and behind this is a nozzle that contract and accelerate the air. The cross section difference from start to end during the nozzle is about 10 and more. This is a bit hidden in most pictures but very important to get clean air (if you are interested, google a bit and you will find many pictures).
- Measuring tracks for cars mostly have walls with slots when the walls are near to the car. Open tracks are resulting in less drag in comparison to real life and closed have to much drag and lift the car (less downforce is measured).

And because I read you look out for ground effect: This is a very sensitive area!
My tip is to smaller the gaps where the scale comes through the ground. Otherwise lots of air will be sucked through and destroy the pressure distribution under the car.

Hope you have lots of fun with aerodynamic science

EDIT:
Just noticed you don´t need to straigten the air if you have a decent nozzle and put the props behind the measure track.

Smokes
Smokes
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Joined: 30 Mar 2010, 17:47

Re: Making a Wind Tunnel.

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Just Remember the BRCA banned ground effects and diffussors because they work. and also brought in the minimum ride height rule which is also to stop racers damaging the carpet indoors. . Some guy In the 90's (Rob Hepplewaite? I think ) did it with a 1/12th car and gained .05 of second a lap when a lap is between 8 and 11seconds a lap. Some oval racer found drilling holes at the top of the rear windscreen allow air to be sucked through the body and reduced drag.

Blanchimont
Blanchimont
214
Joined: 09 Nov 2012, 23:47

Re: Making a Wind Tunnel.

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Two more points i think you could improve before testing:

- The metal plate with the TKR where the air is entering your tunnel IMO is not useful. It'll only increase the power needed for a certain speed of air in the test section and the turbulence is also likely to increase. So i would say get rid of it!

- The plate that simulates your road surface bends down in the middle, either use a thicker plate or try to strengthen it with a wooden supply beneath it.

But don't get me wrong if i contribute critics, your project is really really interesting. Thumbs up! =D>
Dear FIA, if you read this, please pm me for a redesign of the Technical Regulations to avoid finger nose shapes for 2016! :-)

Smokes
Smokes
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Joined: 30 Mar 2010, 17:47

Re: Making a Wind Tunnel.

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I remember a Japanese R/C car magazine showing wind tunnel tests of an tamiya f103 race car in a rolling belt tunnel it look very cool is this guy behind it?

http://www.rc-japan.de/presse.php
Last edited by Richard on 28 Jan 2013, 15:58, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed long quote

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P.S.
5
Joined: 23 Oct 2011, 17:09
Location: Germany

Re: Making a Wind Tunnel.

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Smokes wrote:
I remember a Japanese R/C car magazine showing wind tunnel tests of an tamiya f103 race car in a rolling belt tunnel it look very cool is this guy behind it?

http://www.rc-japan.de/presse.php
Sadly not ;) But thank you for the link. Didn´t know about.

Though my buddy was racing at the WC we shortly noticed the rules are very tight as you mention (IFMAR I think). So our inventive talent was tired. By rules every modified body isn´t allowed. But I have to say I was pretty surprised about the aerodynamik influence by this little heavy cars. Couldn´t imagine it at all.

Smokes
Smokes
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Joined: 30 Mar 2010, 17:47

Re: Making a Wind Tunnel.

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If you look at model aircraft and helicopters the air laminar flow is much thicker and vicous (sp?) heance this is why you can do low speed stunts such as tail dragging ? I think

Therefore smaller scales can generate more lift at lower speeds.
You have to scale the reynold numbers to adjust for scale I think with 1/4 scale tunnels used though I think the wheel RPM on the f1 1/4 tunnels dosen't scale to well and may cause some diversion from the scale model test data to the real f1 car.

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P.S.
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Joined: 23 Oct 2011, 17:09
Location: Germany

Re: Making a Wind Tunnel.

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Smokes wrote:If you look at model aircraft and helicopters the air laminar flow is much thicker and vicous (sp?) heance this is why you can do low speed stunts such as tail dragging ? I think
Not really. Usually with lower Re-numbers the maximum lift is also decreased.

But I have to say I just looked the micro wind tunnel videos from Yoshi Suzuka. Despite his tunnel looks very sophisticated I´m pretty gobsmacked this is working! And of course excited. Look at the second fan probably to match the pressure in the floor... the thing I mentioned, air will be sucked through the holes on the ground.

So maybe some of my well-intentioned advice "how the big guys doing it" was wrong. Obviously Yoshi Suzuka is one of the big guys.

Smokes
Smokes
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Joined: 30 Mar 2010, 17:47

Re: Making a Wind Tunnel.

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Yoshi Designed the aero package for the nissan p35 and previous incarnation for GTP racing. he also worked on the aeropackage for the nissan skyline gtr current model.
Click link below for more about Yoshi
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/nissanp35story.html

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fussell
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Joined: 06 Feb 2012, 21:28

Re: Making a Wind Tunnel.

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just stumbled across this project, its awesome. how do you measure the air speed off the fans?

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NathanOlder
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Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 10:05
Location: Kent

Re: Making a Wind Tunnel.

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Hi, sorry for late replies, iv been so busy lately! Havent had any "play time"

I still have to add a duct to plumb in my anemometer for wind speed measurements. The few times i have used it, I have had wind speeds up to 50 mph.

I will hopefully be using it more over the next few weeks, pics and data will be uploaded for anyone who wishes to know. Any spare time I get at the moment is used reading in the car forums and testing forums.
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0
King George has arrived.

New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS5 & PC

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fussell
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Joined: 06 Feb 2012, 21:28

Re: Making a Wind Tunnel.

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Can't wait to see results :)

roblomas52
roblomas52
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Joined: 05 Aug 2013, 19:37

Re: Making a Wind Tunnel.

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How much would it cost to make one of those if you don't have some bits of model aircraft in the garage?