Fixed Pitstop time

[WhiteBlue]

I'm not in favor of that. It takes away the competitive nature of pitstops.

I'm in favour. I don't think the competitive nature of pit stops is essential for the sport. It adds additional artificial drama and heartbreak occasionally but that is not essential for the sport, it is more the entertainment component that benefits Bernie.

[MOWOG]

Kudos to Diesel. Well said and I agree 100%. =D>

I don't think the competitive nature of pit stops is essential for the sport.

Agreed. Once again, the FIA is addressing the symptoms and not the problem. You'd think there would be enough smart people up and down the pit lane and back at the factories to figure this out. After all, it took us here at F1T what? About 10 seconds?

[WillerZ]

GA's proposed limits would not solve the problem. I say there should be no limit to the number of mechanics working on the car, but the team must nominate one mechanic in advance who is exclusively permitted to:

• Tighten wheel nuts.
• Lower the front jack

Then no-one will be going anywhere with loose wheels.

[Billzilla]

A minor amusing story.
I raced in five Malaysian 12 Hour MME races last decade. Getting the team up to speed literally took most of those five years - When we started it would take them over three minutes to do a pit stop.
I remember bringing the car in to hand it over, getting out and then running off quickly to the toilet as I was busting to have a leak. Did that, got back, and they still hadn't finished.
For the last year I was there I trained them on how to do fast(er) stops and we got it down to about 55 seconds. That was worth the best part of a full lap and with about seven stops in the race that was worth quite a lot. One of the guys in an adjacent professional race team came over and complimented us on our stops.

[ringo]

And we're quarrelling over 2.5s haha
So i guess there is some agreement slower could be better.
Willerz has an interesting idea, it's pretty problem free.

Garry Anderson's idea is interesting still, though i feel it will still allow problems.

[QLDriver]

I still think that temperature corrected strain gages on the wheel studs would be a good way to be sure the wheel is attached. Given that the studs have a known Young's Modulus, multiply that by strain and area, and you have the load on the stud.

That would give a clear telemetry indication that the wheels are properly attached, which could be linked to the release lights.

[Tim.Wright]

I still think that temperature corrected strain gages on the wheel studs would be a good way to be sure the wheel is attached. Given that the studs have a known Young's Modulus, multiply that by strain and area, and you have the load on the stud.

That would give a clear telemetry indication that the wheels are properly attached, which could be linked to the release lights.

Thats too messy in my opinion.

First problem is that there are not wheel studs but its the whole spindle which is loaded by the wheel nut.

Next issue is you also have differing bending moments on the spindle from team to team due to different wheel offsets. So you will need to put a full bridge (4 strain gauges) on the spindle to properly measure the strain.

Next problem is that the spindles are not simple uniform shapes which means the load isnt dependent only on the strain and the youngs modulus but also the shape of the part. Every team have a different design so either the spindles will need to be standardised, or each design will need to be calibrated to relate the clamping force to the strain.

Then, measureing strain on a rotating part is not such a simple matter. You need a battery pack, a wireless transmitter and a receiver to transmit the strain measurements from the rotating spindle to the car. Such things are available but its a lot of stuffing around to solve a simple problem.

My opinion is this should be solved with a simple procedure and without introducing unnecessary technological complications. I would bet 99% of the time a wheel is not on correctly, the guy on the wheel gun knows it. Every mistake like this that Ive seen in recent years, this has been the case. McLaren with Jenson, Red Bull with Mark etc, Renault with Alonso etc.

I have already mentioned this, but if the teams want to continue with the traffic light. Put the damn "GO" button for each gun man 2m away from him. Then he will never touch it until the wheel is absolutely on.

[ringo]

Yep, or some kind of buzzer for each wheel man to press when the wheel is on.
When all 4 are pressed the lollipop man, or the traffic light shows those 4 yellow lights then a green.

[Tim.Wright]

Yep, or some kind of buzzer for each wheel man to press when the wheel is on.
When all 4 are pressed the lollipop man, or the traffic light shows those 4 yellow lights then a green.

That's basically the setup they have now. The problem is the false GO signals.

Hang the GO button of the boom that holds the air lines.... problem solved...

PS, I wouldn't show the driver the 4 yellow lights before the green. A real racer will drop the clutch after 3

[QLDriver]

Thats too messy in my opinion.
...
Such things are available but its a lot of stuffing around to solve a simple problem.

My opinion is this should be solved with a simple procedure and without introducing unnecessary technological complications. I would bet 99% of the time a wheel is not on correctly, the guy on the wheel gun knows it. Every mistake like this that Ive seen in recent years, this has been the case. McLaren with Jenson, Red Bull with Mark etc, Renault with Alonso etc.

I have already mentioned this, but if the teams want to continue with the traffic light. Put the damn "GO" button for each gun man 2m away from him. Then he will never touch it until the wheel is absolutely on.

Point taken that it's not exactly straightforward, and that low-tech solutions would be workable, but isn't F1 often about making complicated solutions to "easy" problems to gain that extra tenth?

One advantage of the strain gauge solution is it would give indications on telemetry if a wheel was coming loose on the track, and would prevent incidents where the mechanic thought the wheelnut was tight, and it turned out not to be. There's objective evidence that the wheel was fitted properly.

[Tim.Wright]

Point taken that it's not exactly straightforward, and that low-tech solutions would be workable, but isn't F1 often about making complicated solutions to "easy" problems to gain that extra tenth?

For the teams, yes. Thats their job. But as we have seen, if you leave it upto them, they will also take risks to gain that extra tenth. You put a strain gauge on their hub, then they will then spend 50k euro developing a hub that flexes a lot in the region of the strain guage to make it trigger sooner or something similar.

The simple solutions are the hardest to screw with. They say the talent of an engineer is to do with $1 what any knob can do with $10...

One advantage of the strain gauge solution is it would give indications on telemetry if a wheel was coming loose on the track, and would prevent incidents where the mechanic thought the wheelnut was tight, and it turned out not to be. There's objective evidence that the wheel was fitted properly.

Like I said, the gun man ALWAYS knows when the wheel is ok or not. I can't recall ever seeing a car going out and losing a wheel where everyone honestly thought they were correctly attached. The gun mans call should be the final one, and it shouldn't be able to be falsely triggered.

To be honest, I love these crazy 2.5 second stop. My idea would add maybe another half a second but would remove so much of the possibility for a stuff up.

[stez90]

Why not NO pit stops at all? I want to see drivers fighting for position on track, not anxious mechanics and incompetent strategists doing -or destroying- the driver's job (take for example Webber and Raikkonen @Silverstone). F1 shouldn't be a team play.
There should be long lasting and less grippy tires that force longer braking zone, and so easier overtakes..
Maybe tires of multiple brands, but with drivers that can choose manufacturer each race (no more races like Indianapolys 2005).

[turbof1]

I'm not in favor of that. It takes away the competitive nature of pitstops.

I'm in favour. I don't think the competitive nature of pit stops is essential for the sport. It adds additional artificial drama and heartbreak occasionally but that is not essential for the sport, it is more the entertainment component that benefits Bernie.

It's not artificial; nothing is stopping teams, except their own limits, from delivering a better pit stop then their neighbour. That very same logic applies for both the drivers and the cars. It's just an added dimension to the competition. Contrary to for example DRS, which is artificial, I feel like competition concerning pitstop is a honest pursuit to go along. Only it needs to be made safer.

[WhiteBlue]

I'm not in favor of that. It takes away the competitive nature of pitstops.

I'm in favour. I don't think the competitive nature of pit stops is essential for the sport. It adds additional artificial drama and heartbreak occasionally but that is not essential for the sport, it is more the entertainment component that benefits Bernie.

It's not artificial; nothing is stopping teams, except their own limits, from delivering a better pit stop then their neighbour. That very same logic applies for both the drivers and the cars. It's just an added dimension to the competition. Contrary to for example DRS, which is artificial, I feel like competition concerning pitstop is a honest pursuit to go along. Only it needs to be made safer.

F1 is a driver's and a constructor's championship. Let's keep it that way. Flogging some mechanics into doing insanely quick tyre changes has no sporting appeal to me. You can honestly hold a different opinion on that but for me it is wrong.

[turbof1]

F1 is a driver's and a constructor's championship. Let's keep it that way. Flogging some mechanics into doing insanely quick tyre changes has no sporting appeal to me. You can honestly hold a different opinion on that but for me it is wrong.

You said it yourself: constructor, which means the team plays a huge part in it too, not just by designing and building a F1 car, but also by racing it. For me "racing it" includes pitstops which by nature of the sport are competitive.
Don't get me wrong; I respect your opinion. I don't agree with it, but I can see why it is off putting for you. It's just personal taste.