The weight limits need changed.

[beelsebob]

UFC fighters loose and gain weight constantly to meet the weight limits of different category. These guys have to be tough, being beaten, and strong land powerful strikes. Skillful so that they outsmart the other fighters too.

If they can adjust their weights, so can F1 drivers. I don't know why this is an issue?? I think F1 driver just live such pampered and glamorous lifestyle to put up with this.

If you think F1 drivers have a pampered glamorous lifestyle rather than training near constantly, you don't know what you're talking about. I'm afraid I don't have a link, but I've seen studies recently into the most intensive sports you can do, that concluded two results
1) Tennis
2) F1

In two different ways. Tennis is the most instantaneously demanding sport out there, and puts the highest instantaneous loads on the body. F1 is the most taxing in terms of endurance, and ability of the body to put up with being abused in every way possible. Next time you think an F1 driver doesn't need to be fit, remember that they're sitting in a tiny space with no air flow, wearing 3 layers of heavy clothing, generally at up to 50-60°C at hot circuits, undergoing 5-6G acceleration near constantly (so much so that they can't breathe for large parts of a lap), needing to concentrate to a degree where they can make precise manoeuvres in fractions of a second, reacting to events that happen faster than you or I could ever hope to react, in an environment that's about as noisy as it's possible to get. Being bumped up and down directly off the ground.

These guys are seriously fit already, and no, it's not trivial for them to lose weight. They're at the peak of physical fitness, the only way they could lose weight is to lose muscle mass, which is undesirable for many reasons, and very difficult to do without simply turning it into fat.

Ultimately, they are a certain height, and their weight is determined by that, because they simply need that level of muscle to be able to do their job.

[zonk]

[feni_remmen]

This is trivially easy to solve.
The driver with all his safety parifinalia including his seat should have to weigh 85kg or 90kg.
This is relatively easy due to the nature of composites.
It wouldn't really change scrutineering very much. Just need a few procedural changes.

[iotar__]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/7adf282d1a93 ... 1_1280.jpg

Thanks, that's interesting but I'm sure I've seen different information (normal), Ricciardo - 64 for example. Oh look Vettel 58... (Webber 75).

This is the one of the latest Webber's little crusades that makes sense, weight is too big a factor in F1 for many years. Just look at how Webber visibly changed in the last couple of years, and he used to say he can't get any lower then, age played a factor probably, I remember Schumacher and his anorexic fingers and of course Kubica who pioneered starving himself.

As everything else in F1 it's inertia, no clear direction from Ecclestone and FIA and everyone else weighing who benefits or loses from it instead of making right decision, "we've got small light drivers so sod it". I want to know who's the fastest not the lightest. It's like with cameraman in pitstop, before accident no one cares, we need real anorexia case or some health complications before anything changes.

Edit:
UFC and boxing are really horrible, clueless examples. There are weight categories there (hello!), they fight once in six months, can move up the weight (with age for example) and most importantly usually difference between walking weight, fight weight and day of weigh-in weight exists and is healthy and normal (assuming similar builds).

[hollus]

In which other category of action sports isn't your natural height, weight or body composition a major factor? Try to play pro tennis being 1.58m or to be a long distance runner weighing in 90kg...
As it is, in F1 we have gone from your excess weight being excess weight for the race to it becoming a c.o.g. disadvantage.
But true, in F1 this could actually be neutered. The seat ballast is a good idea. Will the a taller driver, sitting this much higher, then have a line of sight advantage?

[JimClarkFan]

UFC fighters loose and gain weight constantly to meet the weight limits of different category. These guys have to be tough, being beaten, and strong land powerful strikes. Skillful so that they outsmart the other fighters too.

If they can adjust their weights, so can F1 drivers. I don't know why this is an issue?? I think F1 driver just live such pampered and glamorous lifestyle to put up with this.

It doesn't work like that for formula 1.

The weigh in for a fight usually take place several days before the contest, and they only need to make weight once within the the fight window. By contrast formula 1 driver must be a certain weight at all times.

By the time of the contest, the fighters are several kilos heavier and wouldn't make their catchment weight if weighed the day of the contest - which is just as well because you can't perform to a high standard in that depleted state. You won't have the energy, won't have the concentration and won't have the stamina to fight - and it is no different for an f1 driver.

You can't drive to a high level if you don't have carbs and water to concentrate, or resist the loading, to allow you to last a full race. And because f1 drivers must meet a minimum weight at all times, not just for a few hours over a weekend, carbing down and removing excess water isn't possible.

Additionally in fighting you have distinct weight classes, Sebastian vettel would never fight hulkenburg in boxing because they are 3-4 weight classes apart. No fighter in the world of similar stats to hulkenburg could diet down to reach vettel a weight lol.

Bit of a stupid comparison.

[strad]

If they can adjust their weights, so can F1 drivers

Apparently you know not of what you speak!

[SectorOne]

UFC fighters loose and gain weight constantly to meet the weight limits of different category. These guys have to be tough, being beaten, and strong land powerful strikes. Skillful so that they outsmart the other fighters too.

If they can adjust their weights, so can F1 drivers. I don't know why this is an issue?? I think F1 driver just live such pampered and glamorous lifestyle to put up with this.

UFC fighters go through some insane processes to cut weight. One MMA fighter died of a stroke just days ago during wheight cutting.

You sit in a sauna for x amount of hours, you sit in a salt bath for x amount of hours, you sit covered in blankets for x amount of hours. It´s pure hell when you think about it.

You also don´t cut body weight per say, you cut pure water from the body.

Just to show the extremes,




One is normal walkaround weight, the other is on scale weight the day before a fight.

[xpensive]

...
I personally think that this is unacceptable. Are we seriously saying that in the pinnacle of motor sport cannot and will not accommodate for taller/heavier drivers who clearly have the talent necessary to race in formula 1. Is there no better way in which teams can properly adjust for the weight of drivers and do so in such a way that is fair to all drivers?

Perhaps someone already mentioned this, but nobody under 183 cm (6 ft) would have much success in the NBA either?

[beelsebob]

...
I personally think that this is unacceptable. Are we seriously saying that in the pinnacle of motor sport cannot and will not accommodate for taller/heavier drivers who clearly have the talent necessary to race in formula 1. Is there no better way in which teams can properly adjust for the weight of drivers and do so in such a way that is fair to all drivers?

Perhaps someone already mentioned this, but nobody under 183 cm (6 ft) would have much success in the NBA either?

Are you saying that if a simple rule change couldn't level the playing field, that you wouldn't want to apply it?

[bhall]

I think the playing field has been leveled far too much already. All of this nickel and dime stuff is quickly adding up to a truly spec series, which is not what Formula 1 is supposed to be.

[jamsbong]

LOL! My comparison simply spark a lot of fiery responses. Relax, I have not murdered anyone.

I guess glamorous F1 drivers can't change weight for various reason. Note, F1 drivers are glamorous, even if they have a tough training schedule. Please, it is not necessary to defend them on this. And i have the utmost respect for them.

Personally, I think Tour De France is the toughest sporting event but i think no one here knows for sure.

In conclusion, i think it is sad that Hulkenburg will never get a top drive in F1 because of his weight and height. Touring car, Le Mans or even WRC are other avenues for him to conquer. Does that mean Massa will get a good seat in 2014? If so, That would really suck!!

[JimClarkFan]

I think the playing field has been leveled far too much already. All of this nickel and dime stuff is quickly adding up to a truly spec series, which is not what Formula 1 is supposed to be.

What is Formula 1 supposed to be about then?

Take note that nobody is asking for a massive overhaul of the regulations. The proposed change on page 1 is simple to implement and fair, and importantly doesn't have to lead to a watering down of the formula. As the formula stands, it biases smaller, light drivers for no reason other than the regulations have not been thought through.

What I am pretty sure about is that formula 1 shouldn't be about letting taller, heavier drivers with potentially more skill to fall through the cracks simply because they are taller and heavier. It shouldn't be about small drivers dominating the class simply because they have the right physical attributes in a sport which could easily level the playing field.

What could potentially happen, which Jenson Button has alluded to, is that drivers who are heavier are not going to be given the chance to race at the top level for no other reason than it becomes harder to make the car lighter with them as the driver.

What is being proposed is a simple solution to rectify that problem which could be universally applied and which would take the decision out of the hands of the F1 teams. Selecting a driver because of his physical attributes would be gone, and instead teams could select on talent alone.

The basketball analogies don't make sense, and shouldn't be used. Basketball is a sport which selects for your physical attributes as much as it selects for skill, Formula 1 is a sport which (should) judges talent based primarily on driving/racing ability. Importantly, with Formula 1, because you are building a machine tailored to a driver, it should be possible to mitigate any differences in weight by modification of the technical regulations. Instead we are suggesting that drivers shouldn't be getting seats because of their weight even though it is within the capacity of the FIA to change the regulations and thereby prevent discrimination which seems to rearing its head.

Given that the ability to rule out potential problems with driver weight could be changed relatively easily, it makes sense to do just that.

[feni_remmen]

This is trivially easy to solve.
The driver with all his safety parifinalia including his seat should have to weigh 85kg or 90kg.
This is relatively easy due to the nature of composites.
It wouldn't really change scrutineering very much. Just need a few procedural changes.

Thanks for the support on this...

Once again I find it interesting how this forum descends into the same sort of absurd debate that leaves the F1 rules looking so stupid. We should change the name of this site from f1technical to F1emotional!

Read my above post and show it to Jenson Button. I'm sure a strong driver could push something like this through. There is no debate needed!!! On second though, maybe the site should be called f1naive!

[ringo]

I think motorsports is simply where smaller guys should have the advantage. there's no need to equalize things.
Looking into other sports it's plain to see that certain heights, weights, styles have an advantage. I don't think we should artificially neutralize what could be a variable of interest in the sport.
Look on all the champions in f1 and you will notice a trend in their height, and weight.
F1 is simply like horse racing. The short guys have an advantage. The taller guys need to beat them on other fronts.
Just like in track and feild, boxing, wrestling, there's always something a player can do if he is disadvantaged in some way.


can someone list all tha champions in the past with their height and weight?
i can bet they're mostly shrimps like jackie stewart, or medium height like shumi and hamilton.