2018 Red Bull vs McLaren

[NathanOlder]

. Alonso is worth, imo, .5 to .6 tenths in any chassis.

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Alonso is not worth 0.5 or 0.6 over Max or Ric. If the 3 of them went in the same cars and qualified all season , Max would be the fastest and I'd say Ric would be 2nd. Alonso may out fox Max and bring the car home more often but never in a million years is Alonso worth 0.5 over the red bull boys. More chance of that being the other way round.

Sorry if i havent understood your post correctly.

[hemichromis]

Alonso had previously turned down Red Bull and Mercedes would rather not have the headache of an Alonso/Hamilton clash.

Alonso went to Mclaren on the basis of promises that never came to fruition, maybe Red bull didn't make those promises or wanted to rely on their young driver program. It's well known that Red bull keep there drivers as part of the team rather than the centre.

It is not Alonso's speed or racing craft that kept him from the top teams. He is still one of the best. If Hamilton left Mercedes I do expect they'd be calling Alonso very quickly if not first.

[the EDGE]

Even if Mclaren has an equal chassis to Red bull right now, they have to change a lot to fit a new engine in with different cooling requirements.
If Mclaren are stronger than Red bull next year it would be shocking.

A lot? Only the side pods and engine coverered area needs to be redesigned, suspension, floor, wings etc. All remain fully relevant and that’s where the performance remains. I don’t think it’s that big of an issue. Look at Brawn GP, last minute engine change didn’t hurt them much and nowadays all the mounting points are mandated which will make things even easier

Well, Brawn had their double diffuser up their sleeaves and they didnt bother with KERS while top teams wondered in darkness for half of the season. Not to mention they got a Mercedes engine , look how Manor jumped in their performance with a Merc in the back. A team that was almost dead last in their former existance managed to become a low midfielder making Sauber to run for their money.

I’m not saying their going to beat red bull & suddenly win the championship, I’m just saying the engine change is not really a chassis performance differentia

[Jolle]

A lot? Only the side pods and engine coverered area needs to be redesigned, suspension, floor, wings etc. All remain fully relevant and that’s where the performance remains. I don’t think it’s that big of an issue. Look at Brawn GP, last minute engine change didn’t hurt them much and nowadays all the mounting points are mandated which will make things even easier

Well, Brawn had their double diffuser up their sleeaves and they didnt bother with KERS while top teams wondered in darkness for half of the season. Not to mention they got a Mercedes engine , look how Manor jumped in their performance with a Merc in the back. A team that was almost dead last in their former existance managed to become a low midfielder making Sauber to run for their money.

I’m not saying their going to beat red bull & suddenly win the championship, I’m just saying the engine change is not really a chassis performance differentia

To even have a chance against RedBull or the other rich teams you can’t miss any percentage of packaging, cooling, flow and weight distribution. A few mm here, a cm there can cost you horsepower or downforce/drag. An PU swap isn’t that easy.

[GoranF1]

Driver pairing is stronger in Red Bull for sure.

And Renault will outscore Mclaren. Red Bull will outscore the pair

Dont think so....Alonso is better than Riciardo, Alonso is better then Verstapen. Much better.

If Alonso so magical as you say, why is his choice left him between McLaren (a non-works team from now on), teams like Sauber or the ex-F1-backmarker-competition of Indy? All the big teams had nice seats open..... Non of the works teams seems to want him as a driver anymore... if Mclaren will even pay him what he asks. Don’t forget, they lost their Honda money.

Because teams you refer to have drivers (Vettel and Hamilton) that chickend out and Mclaren will gain money by ditching Honda not lose....by results and sponsors.....and you sound like you watch starts 2 laps after that and last 2 laps of every race.

[GoranF1]

Driver pairing is stronger in Red Bull for sure.

And Renault will outscore Mclaren. Red Bull will outscore the pair

Dont think so....Alonso is better than Riciardo, Alonso is better then Verstapen. Much better.

he said pairing.

Do you think ALO & VAN is better than VES & RIC ?

I know he said paring, but i think there are 17 people in the world that care about constructors......Alonso is much better than RB drivers and will finish next season in front of both of them....he already was very close to RB when their car was actualy very dominant and he drove a truck from Italy.

[Jolle]

Dont think so....Alonso is better than Riciardo, Alonso is better then Verstapen. Much better.

If Alonso so magical as you say, why is his choice left him between McLaren (a non-works team from now on), teams like Sauber or the ex-F1-backmarker-competition of Indy? All the big teams had nice seats open..... Non of the works teams seems to want him as a driver anymore... if Mclaren will even pay him what he asks. Don’t forget, they lost their Honda money.

Because teams you refer to have drivers (Vettel and Hamilton) that chickend out and Mclaren will gain money by ditching Honda not lose....by results and sponsors.....and you sound like you watch starts 2 laps after that and last 2 laps of every race.

Yeah... it's all their fault that no team wants to work with him... You should think, with his reputation and such an empty McLaren, there would be at least some Spanish sponsors interested.....

[GoranF1]

If Alonso so magical as you say, why is his choice left him between McLaren (a non-works team from now on), teams like Sauber or the ex-F1-backmarker-competition of Indy? All the big teams had nice seats open..... Non of the works teams seems to want him as a driver anymore... if Mclaren will even pay him what he asks. Don’t forget, they lost their Honda money.

Because teams you refer to have drivers (Vettel and Hamilton) that chickend out and Mclaren will gain money by ditching Honda not lose....by results and sponsors.....and you sound like you watch starts 2 laps after that and last 2 laps of every race.

Yeah... it's all their fault that no team wants to work with him... You should think, with his reputation and such an empty McLaren, there would be at least some Spanish sponsors interested.....

Alonso is not a pay driver he does not need spanish sponsors.

[Jolle]

Because teams you refer to have drivers (Vettel and Hamilton) that chickend out and Mclaren will gain money by ditching Honda not lose....by results and sponsors.....and you sound like you watch starts 2 laps after that and last 2 laps of every race.

Yeah... it's all their fault that no team wants to work with him... You should think, with his reputation and such an empty McLaren, there would be at least some Spanish sponsors interested.....

Alonso is not a pay driver he does not need spanish sponsors.

As fast as he might be, Alonso never going to win a F1 race, let alone a championship again. He pissed off Mercedes on '07, Ferrari in '14, Honda in '17 and probably Renault somewhere down the line as well. If he will be in F1 at all. As you say, he's not a pay driver but he is a driver that wants to get paid. As of next year, Honda won't cover his 40mln check anymore and McLaren is downgraded from one of the richest to Williams level. So that's going back to 5mln a year salary. No sponsor is no money is no Alonso.... Since McLaren bought back the shares from Mercedes all their sponsors ran away... Even a team of the most loved world champions with an iconic team of McLaren Honda couldn't stop that.

McLaren has a long, long way to go.... they are in much deeper trouble then in '93, when they had at least the Philip Morris partnership. And that season, with the following year of Peugeot resulted in selling the company to Mercedes...

[zeph]

I think many here overestimate the level of animosity in the paddock towards Alonso.
The media has a tendency to blow things out of proportion, as that generates views/clicks, which in turn generate revenue.

It is simply a matter of seats available. If Hamilton or Vettel retired or were otherwise unable to be on the grid, I'm sure Alonso would be the first call for their respective teams. That may not be the case for RBR, but my point stands.

[Chuckjr]

. Alonso is worth, imo, .5 to .6 tenths in any chassis.

.

Alonso is not worth 0.5 or 0.6 over Max or Ric. If the 3 of them went in the same cars and qualified all season , Max would be the fastest and I'd say Ric would be 2nd. Alonso may out fox Max and bring the car home more often but never in a million years is Alonso worth 0.5 over the red bull boys. More chance of that being the other way round.

Sorry if i havent understood your post correctly.

I was saying Fred can pull another .5-.6 out of any chassis, imo. Not that he is faster than any particular driver.

[George-Jung]

. Alonso is worth, imo, .5 to .6 tenths in any chassis.

.

Alonso is not worth 0.5 or 0.6 over Max or Ric. If the 3 of them went in the same cars and qualified all season , Max would be the fastest and I'd say Ric would be 2nd. Alonso may out fox Max and bring the car home more often but never in a million years is Alonso worth 0.5 over the red bull boys. More chance of that being the other way round.

Sorry if i havent understood your post correctly.

I was saying Fred can pull another .5-.6 out of any chassis, imo. Not that he is faster than any particular driver.

Than how much do other drivers pull out of any chassis?

[GoranF1]

Yeah... it's all their fault that no team wants to work with him... You should think, with his reputation and such an empty McLaren, there would be at least some Spanish sponsors interested.....

Alonso is not a pay driver he does not need spanish sponsors.

As fast as he might be, Alonso never going to win a F1 race, let alone a championship again. He pissed off Mercedes on '07, Ferrari in '14, Honda in '17 and probably Renault somewhere down the line as well. If he will be in F1 at all. As you say, he's not a pay driver but he is a driver that wants to get paid. As of next year, Honda won't cover his 40mln check anymore and McLaren is downgraded from one of the richest to Williams level. So that's going back to 5mln a year salary. No sponsor is no money is no Alonso.... Since McLaren bought back the shares from Mercedes all their sponsors ran away... Even a team of the most loved world champions with an iconic team of McLaren Honda couldn't stop that.

McLaren has a long, long way to go.... they are in much deeper trouble then in '93, when they had at least the Philip Morris partnership. And that season, with the following year of Peugeot resulted in selling the company to Mercedes...

You sound like typical fan of some other driver or team that is perfectly aware of what Alonso can do and thus terrebly afraid of what he will do to Ferreri , Mercedes and Renault in the future and say PAYBACK IS A BITCH.

[NathanOlder]

Like someone said earlier, Alonso has probably won his last race already. How many years ago was it now ? I can't believe people keep saying he is in his prime. 2012 was his prime. 5 years have passed, years of running at the back, years of not fighting 100% and staying sharp. He's been entertaining but has been fooling around and not fully focused, its not his fault but he could have handled it better. Right now he needs Mclaren more than they need him. Mclaren is the best team he can get his arse in to and its a midfield team

[NathanOlder]

If you genuinely believe that, good for you.

I do feel that you will be very disappointed on the evening of March 25th 2018.

There will probably be 6 drivers with faster cars 44, 77, 5, 7, 33, 3.

There will be 3 drivers with equal cars 27, 55 , 2.

So i seriously doubt the 14 will be on the podium at all. I also believe the 5 car will be on the grid next year