2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[Ground Effect]

New sponsor

8, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Swed3121]

Yet somehow it seems like Aston martin started later, and has more impressive facilities already.

AM facilities aren’t ready, their main building is expected to be finished this year while the Wind Tunnel in 2024 to work on their 2025 car, so no, they don’t have more impressive facilities already… It’s also easier to build something from scratch than working with infrastructure already in place depending on the amount of rework an structure needs, when you already have infrastructure in place it limits your ability to get equipment / machinery, etc. and you have to work considering other infrastructure already in place that you can’t damage, therefore more time consuming.

Mclaren don’t even own MTC…

Do you think Amazon owns their HQs in Seattle, little hint: no

[SmallSoldier]

Yet somehow it seems like Aston martin started later, and has more impressive facilities already.

AM facilities aren’t ready, their main building is expected to be finished this year while the Wind Tunnel in 2024 to work on their 2025 car, so no, they don’t have more impressive facilities already… It’s also easier to build something from scratch than working with infrastructure already in place depending on the amount of rework an structure needs, when you already have infrastructure in place it limits your ability to get equipment / machinery, etc. and you have to work considering other infrastructure already in place that you can’t damage, therefore more time consuming.

Mclaren don’t even own MTC…

Lol… and your point is? I mean it has nothing to do with what was argued… I guess you are just trolling a bit?

[SmallSoldier]

New sponsor

8, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I’m guessing we might see a few more announcements from here until the car launch… DP World was one of Renault’s main sponsors a couple of seasons ago, right?

[AR3-GP]

AM facilities aren’t ready, their main building is expected to be finished this year while the Wind Tunnel in 2024 to work on their 2025 car, so no, they don’t have more impressive facilities already… It’s also easier to build something from scratch than working with infrastructure already in place depending on the amount of rework an structure needs, when you already have infrastructure in place it limits your ability to get equipment / machinery, etc. and you have to work considering other infrastructure already in place that you can’t damage, therefore more time consuming.

Mclaren don’t even own MTC…

Lol… and your point is? I mean it has nothing to do with what was argued… I guess you are just trolling a bit?

It points to the financial health of a business when they own their property. Mclaren had to sell the property to raise funds. Mclaren was in crisis.

don't get me wrong. AM was in crisis as well....a few years ago. However currently Aston Martin's investments look more impressive than Mclarens.

[SmallSoldier]

Mclaren don’t even own MTC…

Lol… and your point is? I mean it has nothing to do with what was argued… I guess you are just trolling a bit?

It points to the financial health of a business when they own their property. Mclaren had to sell the property to raise funds. Mclaren was in crisis.

don't get me wrong. AM was in crisis as well....a few years ago. However currently Aston Martin's investments look more impressive than Mclarens.

Moving the goal post a bit then… I don’t think anyone here has argued that McLaren didn’t had a financial crisis in their hands, it is well known and has been publicly discussed by Zak with the media… Where you are mistaken though is in regards to financial health been related to owning property, that’s a fallacy… The business I lead actually sold all of the Real Estate in a similar way to McLaren (afterwards leasing the building back in a long term deal with established rent increases) it make more sense from a financial standpoint and was unrelated to a financial issue (we are not in the real estate business, no point in owning it), you can use what was actually trapped cash in order to invest it and therefore get a return from it, in addition you get to deduct the rent/lease cost and therefore lower your taxable liability.

Now, your original statement was: “Yet somehow it seems like Aston martin started later, and has more impressive facilities already.” (Nothing to do with ownership, which as stated before it is a valid and more often than not smarter business decision) and it was clarified to you that they can’t have more impressive facilities already if their facilities are even finished yet and their Wind Tunnel (which is the only comparable thing, since McLaren doesn’t need new facilities) will be ready at least 1-2 years after McLaren’s, so it’s not like they are moving faster.

[SmallSoldier]

This year’s car will be called MCL60

[AR3-GP]

Lol… and your point is? I mean it has nothing to do with what was argued… I guess you are just trolling a bit?

It points to the financial health of a business when they own their property. Mclaren had to sell the property to raise funds. Mclaren was in crisis.

don't get me wrong. AM was in crisis as well....a few years ago. However currently Aston Martin's investments look more impressive than Mclarens.

Moving the goal post a bit then… I don’t think anyone here has argued that McLaren didn’t had a financial crisis in their hands, it is well known and has been publicly discussed by Zak with the media… Where you are mistaken though is in regards to financial health been related to owning property, that’s a fallacy…

At this point I'm not sure what we are going in circles about. I never said financial health and property are tied, broadly speaking. I was specifically referring to Mclaren's issue and their reasons for selling their property to get cash (at a price).

I'm more impressed by Aston Martin's investment, that's all.

[Chuckjr]

I'm curious... did Daniel struggle in the sim aswell? or was it just in the actual thing?

I don't know later on, but pre-season when he moved there he was struggling in the sim - mclaren had a switch of brake materials in progress as soon as winter testing started to see if it would help him out later on. Someone else here might have more idea later. I only really see the parts side and the factory floor ramblings.

I would expect that Daniel's move to RBR was probably largely to do with him getting into the RBR SIM. He wants to test his metal against Max in a SIM with a car that has a strong front end. If he can Match Max, it will go along way to refurbing his confidence to drive again in F1.

Ok wait. That ending is misleading, imo.

Danny, tho very likable and a great driver, is done participating on the F1 starting grid. He’s a test driver now and that is the best he could muster income wise and still stay in the circus. It’s a good option for him. Less stress, decent pay, and still relevant to his peers.

He blew it at Renault and he blew it at Macca. It is what it is. He simply wasn’t fast enough after leaving RB. No shame in that at all. It’s a tough sport. He thought he could be fast elsewhere and he was wrong. Life goes on and he took the next best gig he could get.

Furthermore, some drivers make better test drivers than race drivers. Happens to quarterbacks in the NFL all the time. They aren’t good enough to be a starter, but make a safe journeyman second and third string. They won’t make dumb rookie mistakes, know how to read the field, are competent to participate, have a lengthy pedigree of experience to draw from, etc. Exact same case with Danny. Great guy and yes I wish he was still fast enough, but speed doesn’t improve with age. Danny is done being on the grid and short of a sick fill or tragedy, he won’t be on the grid come Sunday.

Now back on topic...

IMO Macca should be as one other poster here put it...contesting for podiums every time one of the top three fumbles. This year they should be right there pushing for thirds and fourths and taking the seconds and wins in any case of weakness shown by the other three. Will they? I’ve no idea. But they absolutely should.

F1 needs Macca like it needs Ferrari. Macca are an historic team with an outstanding racing pedigree, and if they were top three, F1 would be a better sport. Period.

[Mostlyeels]

Lol… and your point is? I mean it has nothing to do with what was argued… I guess you are just trolling a bit?

It points to the financial health of a business when they own their property. Mclaren had to sell the property to raise funds. Mclaren was in crisis.

don't get me wrong. AM was in crisis as well....a few years ago. However currently Aston Martin's investments look more impressive than Mclarens.

Moving the goal post a bit then… I don’t think anyone here has argued that McLaren didn’t had a financial crisis in their hands, it is well known and has been publicly discussed by Zak with the media… Where you are mistaken though is in regards to financial health been related to owning property, that’s a fallacy… The business I lead actually sold all of the Real Estate in a similar way to McLaren (afterwards leasing the building back in a long term deal with established rent increases) it make more sense from a financial standpoint and was unrelated to a financial issue (we are not in the real estate business, no point in owning it), you can use what was actually trapped cash in order to invest it and therefore get a return from it, in addition you get to deduct the rent/lease cost and therefore lower your taxable liability.

Indeed. Capital recycling is quite common in businesses, to unlock value. It definitely helped McLaren through a pretty rough cash crunch too.

[diffuser]

I don't know later on, but pre-season when he moved there he was struggling in the sim - mclaren had a switch of brake materials in progress as soon as winter testing started to see if it would help him out later on. Someone else here might have more idea later. I only really see the parts side and the factory floor ramblings.

I would expect that Daniel's move to RBR was probably largely to do with him getting into the RBR SIM. He wants to test his metal against Max in a SIM with a car that has a strong front end. If he can Match Max, it will go along way to refurbing his confidence to drive again in F1.

Ok wait. That ending is misleading, imo.

Danny, tho very likable and a great driver, is done participating on the F1 starting grid. He’s a test driver now and that is the best he could muster income wise and still stay in the circus. It’s a good option for him. Less stress, decent pay, and still relevant to his peers.

He blew it at Renault and he blew it at Macca. It is what it is. He simply wasn’t fast enough after leaving RB. No shame in that at all. It’s a tough sport. He thought he could be fast elsewhere and he was wrong. Life goes on and he took the next best gig he could get.

Furthermore, some drivers make better test drivers than race drivers. Happens to quarterbacks in the NFL all the time. They aren’t good enough to be a starter, but make a safe journeyman second and third string. They won’t make dumb rookie mistakes, know how to read the field, are competent to participate, have a lengthy pedigree of experience to draw from, etc. Exact same case with Danny. Great guy and yes I wish he was still fast enough, but speed doesn’t improve with age. Danny is done being on the grid and short of a sick fill or tragedy, he won’t be on the grid come Sunday.

Now back on topic...

IMO Macca should be as one other poster here put it...contesting for podiums every time one of the top three fumbles. This year they should be right there pushing for thirds and fourths and taking the seconds and wins in any case of weakness shown by the other three. Will they? I’ve no idea. But they absolutely should.

F1 needs Macca like it needs Ferrari. Macca are an historic team with an outstanding racing pedigree, and if they were top three, F1 would be a better sport. Period.

Well, he did burn the Renault bridge. I don't agree that we can say he's done. If he performes well in the SIM, that will get out and someone will pick him up. Of course that's a big if. Haas was ready last year...you never know.

[SmallSoldier]

I don't know later on, but pre-season when he moved there he was struggling in the sim - mclaren had a switch of brake materials in progress as soon as winter testing started to see if it would help him out later on. Someone else here might have more idea later. I only really see the parts side and the factory floor ramblings.

I would expect that Daniel's move to RBR was probably largely to do with him getting into the RBR SIM. He wants to test his metal against Max in a SIM with a car that has a strong front end. If he can Match Max, it will go along way to refurbing his confidence to drive again in F1.

Ok wait. That ending is misleading, imo.

Danny, tho very likable and a great driver, is done participating on the F1 starting grid. He’s a test driver now and that is the best he could muster income wise and still stay in the circus. It’s a good option for him. Less stress, decent pay, and still relevant to his peers.

He blew it at Renault and he blew it at Macca. It is what it is. He simply wasn’t fast enough after leaving RB. No shame in that at all. It’s a tough sport. He thought he could be fast elsewhere and he was wrong. Life goes on and he took the next best gig he could get.

Furthermore, some drivers make better test drivers than race drivers. Happens to quarterbacks in the NFL all the time. They aren’t good enough to be a starter, but make a safe journeyman second and third string. They won’t make dumb rookie mistakes, know how to read the field, are competent to participate, have a lengthy pedigree of experience to draw from, etc. Exact same case with Danny. Great guy and yes I wish he was still fast enough, but speed doesn’t improve with age. Danny is done being on the grid and short of a sick fill or tragedy, he won’t be on the grid come Sunday.

Now back on topic...

IMO Macca should be as one other poster here put it...contesting for podiums every time one of the top three fumbles. This year they should be right there pushing for thirds and fourths and taking the seconds and wins in any case of weakness shown by the other three. Will they? I’ve no idea. But they absolutely should.

F1 needs Macca like it needs Ferrari. Macca are an historic team with an outstanding racing pedigree, and if they were top three, F1 would be a better sport. Period.

If performance would be related to pedigree, maybe… But unluckily, it isn’t.

Performance in F1 is influenced by your Infrastructure and the your Talent Pool (engineers, aerodynamicists, etc)… In regards to Infrastructure, McLaren is lagging behind the top 3, they can do more in less time, they have access to more quantity and quality of data… That’s a gap that the Team is trying to breach by investing in it, but they have yet to utilize those tools since they aren’t available yet… I can’t make an assessment in regards to Pool Talent since I have no data to make an assessment, but it would be fair to think that based on the top 3 using double the budget of McLaren for at least the whole Hybrid era, that their talent pool may be superior to McLaren’s.

Based on the above, it doesn’t seem realistic to expect McLaren to be fighting for wins or regular podiums in 2023… They have a plan to make it happen by 2025-2026 and it’s just a matter of been patient for them to execute it… The tools / infrastructure will be there and they are now actively recruiting to improve their talent pool, whether that would get them there or not, only time will tell.

[SmallSoldier]

It points to the financial health of a business when they own their property. Mclaren had to sell the property to raise funds. Mclaren was in crisis.

don't get me wrong. AM was in crisis as well....a few years ago. However currently Aston Martin's investments look more impressive than Mclarens.

Moving the goal post a bit then… I don’t think anyone here has argued that McLaren didn’t had a financial crisis in their hands, it is well known and has been publicly discussed by Zak with the media… Where you are mistaken though is in regards to financial health been related to owning property, that’s a fallacy… The business I lead actually sold all of the Real Estate in a similar way to McLaren (afterwards leasing the building back in a long term deal with established rent increases) it make more sense from a financial standpoint and was unrelated to a financial issue (we are not in the real estate business, no point in owning it), you can use what was actually trapped cash in order to invest it and therefore get a return from it, in addition you get to deduct the rent/lease cost and therefore lower your taxable liability.

Indeed. Capital recycling is quite common in businesses, to unlock value. It definitely helped McLaren through a pretty rough cash crunch too.

Exactly, I don’t see it as a negative… It was actually a good move.

[Ground Effect]

New sponsor

8, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I’m guessing we might see a few more announcements from here until the car launch… DP World was one of Renault’s main sponsors a couple of seasons ago, right?

Yeah, I believe they were actually title sponsor, but for just one season. That was very odd indeed.

[Ground Effect]

It points to the financial health of a business when they own their property. Mclaren had to sell the property to raise funds. Mclaren was in crisis.

don't get me wrong. AM was in crisis as well....a few years ago. However currently Aston Martin's investments look more impressive than Mclarens.

Moving the goal post a bit then… I don’t think anyone here has argued that McLaren didn’t had a financial crisis in their hands, it is well known and has been publicly discussed by Zak with the media… Where you are mistaken though is in regards to financial health been related to owning property, that’s a fallacy…

At this point I'm not sure what we are going in circles about. I never said financial health and property are tied, broadly speaking. I was specifically referring to Mclaren's issue and their reasons for selling their property to get cash (at a price).

I'm more impressed by Aston Martin's investment, that's all.

Sorry, what exactly are you impressed by? The yet to be completed factory? Yet to be completed wind tunnel? The personnel they've hired? McLaren are ahead on all fronts in terms of investments, whether they own the MTC or not. Everything Aston Martin is investing in McLaren has done the same.