F1 2010 Entries

[jddh1]

...I mean, there are already 28 cars on the 2010 grid as it is, Why not go for 32 ?
id love it

I belive that 13 teams are on the list which would equate to 26 cars as decided by the WMSC.

I think a modern F1 circuit has enough garages for only 13 teams. Please, correct me if i'm wrong.

[Conceptual]

F1technical

Manor is based in the UK across two sites, one in Sheffield and the other in Bicester. Its technical innovation is characterised by the fact that the race cars are designed, tested and refined entirely in the digital domain using the processes originally developed by Wirth Research Limited (WRL).

WRL is an engineering company, founded by Nick Wirth in 2003, which specialises in research, development and manufacturing in the high technology sector. WRL's designs were successful in winning both the 2004 and 2005 lndy Racing League championships and it has recently produced race winning designs for Honda competing in the American Le Mans Series.

Wirth, who is the Technical Director of Manor Grand Prix Racing, started his career as an Aerodynamicist for the March F1 racing team. He was responsible for aerodynamic concepts as well as scheming and design of wind tunnel model components for the 1988 and 1989 Leyton House March F1 cars.

From 1993 to 1995, Wirth was Founder/Owner/Technical Director of the Simtek F1 team, which started in the 1994 F1 championship. Simtek Research provided the team with all of the engineering and design of the cars. Wirth went on to become Chief Designer for the Benetton F1 team from 1996 to 1999.

It appears to me from the FIA due diligence published at F1technical about Manor, that they have in depth constructor capabilities. To do some out house manufacturing seems reasonable in the start up phase of a new F1 team.

It is the whole car!

We are not talking about a few small pieces, but the designing and building of the entire car!

If Manor has the capabilities, why are they not doing it in house? Is there some deficiency?

[kilcoo316]

BTW: I am not convinced that Bernie has a hold onto the circuits. Suing the circuits for hosting another high profile series could be understood as monopoly abuse here in Europe. Yes, even if the contract states so, since some contract clauses can be considered unenforceable by a judge.

I don't believe any of the circuit contracts will forbid them from hosting other high profile races.

I don't believe any circuit owner would sign the dotted line - considering hosting F1 races is a net drain on the bank account!

[WhiteBlue]

We are not talking about a few small pieces, but the designing and building of the entire car!

Nick Wirth's comments on Autosport http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76057 stipulate that they have a sophisticated and comprehensive digital design process which generated race winning cars in the past. The constructor principle in F1 was always about intellectual property rights and not about material manufacturing capabilities. Both are somewhat related because without inhouse manufacturing there is a significant risk of leaks of conceptual detail to competitors. But imo manufacturing has by no means been a legal requirement.

[Chaparral]

Its all inconsequential - FOTA with the 8 members have won this round and its another week of soap opera - more power to them let the shite hit the fan it really doesnt matter anymore - FOTA will win the final argument - and besides Le Mans kicks off tomorrow - much more exciting

[vall]

So, the FIA pick a team that is sub-contracting their car (thus are not actually a "constructor" in the purest sense of the term), but pass over Prodrive?

Who the hell is actually making these decisions at the FIA? Isn't this by deffinition a "customer car"?

I think "customer car" means buying it from another F1 team, yes? This was the biggest problem for Williams: Prodrive buying cars form McLaren and beating them, while Williams invests millions to build their cars. But it is also true that these teams will not be a "constructor" in the purest sense of the term

[meves]

I'm interested to see how good the Cosworth engine is and if it gets any advantage over the frozen manufacturers engines. If it's great and far better than the frozen engines, I wonder if the FIA will try to persude the manufactures to white label it and use a "standard" engine. Currenty nothing would suprise me!

[jon-mullen]

All I'm taking from this is that Max had a chance to give us fans the finger big time and he didn't quite take it. This list is really for us anyway, isn't it? He knows what the sh*tstorm would look like if the big names weren't on his preliminary list.

In the meantime he'll bullsh*t and stonewall in the shadows. If any bad F1 news is coming out this weekend it'll be while Peugeot and Audi are racing for the lead so no one notices.

[RacingManiac]

So, the FIA pick a team that is sub-contracting their car (thus are not actually a "constructor" in the purest sense of the term), but pass over Prodrive?

Who the hell is actually making these decisions at the FIA? Isn't this by deffinition a "customer car"?

I think "customer car" means buying it from another F1 team, yes? This was the biggest problem for Williams: Prodrive buying cars form McLaren and beating them, while Williams invests millions to build their cars. But it is also true that these teams will not be a "constructor" in the purest sense of the term

Manor's car will be Manor's if they own the IP exclusively. That's how RBR is doing theirs with 2 teams because they both "contract" Red Bull Technology to design their car and through contractual process they gain the IP of the car. Same deal like in Sports Car that Audi don't build most of their race cars, but they design and and contract others to do it, but they own the IP of the car.

As to Wirth, regardless of his previous Simtek days, I think their current exploit with the Acura LMP program proves that they do have the capability for some pretty creative and well engineered stuff, if not a bit narrow focused....Though if they do have the same kind of thought process for the F1 car than it should probably have better suited to F1....

[donskar]

It goes on and on and on, like a bad dream. After all the build up to "the day of reckoning," we get this farcical denouement.

So the FIA is trying to force three teams (RBR, STR, and Ferrari) to compete, even though they have repeatedly said they do not want to. Meanwhile, seemingly more worthy teams (Lola and Prodrive, certainly) are passed over in some arcane selection process. Don't Dave Richards and Martin Birrane know the secret handshake?

If this were another sport, I would say that all this play acting would do long term harm, but I think the media by now accept that this is all some weird Kabuki theater play.

[KiwiF1]

My patience is now starting to wear thin, how arrogant of the FIA to publish ferrari as unconditinal entrants. Im normally quite the supporter of max(perhaps not supporter, but i certainly have thought in the past some of the bashing is over the top), but this is going to far...

What in the hell is he trying to do to this sport. I now, for the first time, actually think that the split is going to happen. The FIA are clearly too egotistical to make any attempt to negotiate. I thought the its my way or the highway stuff was just a negotiating ploy, but its gone on too long...

I dont see now how this can possibly be worked out, there are now confirmed teams on the grid who only have the capacity to compete within the budget cap whilst ferrari have absolutly stated they will not compete under such a cap. It seems ferrari's contract for 2010 has been broken by the fia via nulling their veto. It may be all over for F1 as we know it folks

[donskar]

FOTA has an ally speaking out against FIA
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76093:

"The ACEA members support the activities and objectives of the Formula One Teams' Association to establish stable governance, clear and transparent rules which are common to all competitors to achieve cost reductions including a proper attribution of revenues to the F1 teams, in order to deliver a sustainable attractive sport for the worldwide public.

"Unless these objectives are met, the BMW, Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault and Toyota along with the other teams are determined to find an alternative way to practice this sport in a manner which provides clarity, certainty of rules and administration, and a fair allocation of revenues to the competing teams. "

The ACEA was founded in 1991 and represents 15 European car, truck and bus manufacturers at EU level.

Its members are BMW Group, DAF Trucks, Daimler, FIAT Group, Ford of Europe, General Motors Europe, Jaguar Land Rover, MAN Nutzfahrzeuge, Porsche, PSA Peugeot Citroën, Renault, Scania, Toyota Motor Europe, Volkswagen and Volvo.

[donskar]

This is getting more and more like a Monty Python skit -- make that Benny Hill.

This is Joan Villadelprat in Autosport:

Q. So the FIA has told you that even the new teams on the list are not 100% certain?

JV: Exactly. At least what we are told is that nobody, at this point, is 100% certain. They are still working, auditing and gathering data and told us not to throw in the towel, and that we are in a good position. We are at the FIA's disposal to give them any kind of information.

I do like the idea of new teams, with new drivers, sponsors, ideas, etc. But by the time thay can safely make progress toward signing drivers, suppliers and especially sponsors . . . well it will be a little late.

[The FOZ]

To do some out house manufacturing seems reasonable in the start up phase of a new F1 team.

What's building a loo got to do with starting an F1 team?

[gridwalker]

To do some out house manufacturing seems reasonable in the start up phase of a new F1 team.

What's building a loo got to do with starting an F1 team?

You need somewhere to keep all of Max's --- ideas