2012 Testing - Barcelona 2: 21-24 Feb

[raymondu999]

Mclaren didn't do a real race sim. After the first stint, at the end of each stint, Hamilton back to the pit for 3 minutes.

After the first stint he was always with a big tank because Mclaren refueled the car into the pits. We know that because his time didn't drop off like during a proper race.

He was always in 1.28 - 1.29 range, like at the start of a race.

Mclaren car is very good, at the first stint, with the set of tyre, Hamilton was as fast as Vettel.

Why would they keep on repeating the 1st stint?

[horse]

Sticking my neck out based on testing, but I wouldn't be surprised if this year's grid order looked something like:
RBR > Force India > Mercedes > Ferrari > Torro Rosso > Sauber > McLaren > Williams

Hell no.

[thestig84]

Early days yet but from the remarks from trackside observers, long run pace, etc, I would say perhaps it's set to be a Red Bull vs McLaren fight at least. I'm somewhat confident about the W03's pace so hope they are up there with the other two.

To me, looking at the pace of the cars on long runs, I don't think McLaren are anywhere near the front this year. Yes, they may be sandbagging, and as always testing means nothing... But even williams was putting in faster mid-long run pace than them.

The chap behind the wheel of the Mclaren disagrees with you

"Definitely we feel in a much more comfortable place and confident that we can be at the front fighting with the guys at the top."

"I was just focusing on my job. I think we (Mclaren & RedBull) were out at similar times during the runs," Hamilton said of his race simulation.

"I was always on used tyres and I think he started with new tyres in the second couple of stints, but generally he looked very, very competitive, perhaps a little bit faster than us.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97634

I know who I believe more...

[beelsebob]

Mclaren didn't do a real race sim. After the first stint, at the end of each stint, Hamilton back to the pit for 3 minutes.

After the first stint he was always with a big tank because Mclaren refueled the car into the pits. We know that because his time didn't drop off like during a proper race.

He was always in 1.28 - 1.29 range, like at the start of a race.

Mclaren car is very good, at the first stint, with the set of tyre, Hamilton was as fast as Vettel.

Why would they keep on repeating the 1st stint?

No idea – maybe they think their car isn't behaving well on the tyres, and they need to optimise setup/try parts to get it to work well... They certainly seemed to shave a second or two off their 15 lap pace over the course of the day.

[raymondu999]

To be honest I stopped believing Hamilton's testing comments since 2009 - since 2007 up to 2011 he's always said it's the best car he's ever driven

[Trocola]

I mean honestly I don't know. But he set his fastest time, came into the pits-went out-came in again- then they said watch out he has now bolted on super softs he might go for a real fast lap. So it seems that he wasn't on them before. But honestly I don't know. Sorry if I came off abrasive, I wasn't trying to be.

According to Marca, Alonso was on supersofts on his fastest lap:

http://www.marca.com/2012/02/22/motor/f ... 14558.html


Trocola

[beelsebob]

Early days yet but from the remarks from trackside observers, long run pace, etc, I would say perhaps it's set to be a Red Bull vs McLaren fight at least. I'm somewhat confident about the W03's pace so hope they are up there with the other two.

To me, looking at the pace of the cars on long runs, I don't think McLaren are anywhere near the front this year. Yes, they may be sandbagging, and as always testing means nothing... But even williams was putting in faster mid-long run pace than them.

The chap behind the wheel of the Mclaren disagrees with you

"Definitely we feel in a much more comfortable place and confident that we can be at the front fighting with the guys at the top."

"I was just focusing on my job. I think we (Mclaren & RedBull) were out at similar times during the runs," Hamilton said of his race simulation.

"I was always on used tyres and I think he started with new tyres in the second couple of stints, but generally he looked very, very competitive, perhaps a little bit faster than us.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97634

I know who I believe more...

You believe the guy who's paid to make McLaren look good, talking about McLaren looking good?

The only positive indicator I can see is Vettel talking about the McLaren looking good. He after all isn't paid to do that.

[horse]

I know who I believe more...

Not the driver, surely?

Testing is unreliable, drivers are unreliable and the press is unreliable.

Hence the value of watching the races.

[raymondu999]

What makes you so sure they didn't pay Vettel to downplay the Red Bull?

I never understood why teams didn't want to draw attention in testing with quick times though - surely the other teams are already taking a look at all the oddiites/funky looking details on all the cars anyways? And I mean; why wouldn't the teams already be working flat out on developments anyways?

[thestig84]

To be honest I stopped believing Hamilton's testing comments since 2009 - since 2007 up to 2011 he's always said it's the best car he's ever driven

"I was just focusing on my job. I think we were out at similar times during the runs," Hamilton said of his race simulation.

"I was always on used tyres and I think he started with new tyres in the second couple of stints, but generally he looked very, very competitive, perhaps a little bit faster than us.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97634

Its hardly quoting the stuff your comparing it too. Its not him talking about how the car feels early on in testing etc. This is far more factual comparing times with the RB and on what tyres. I believe that more than someone on here saying Mclaren arent anywhere near the front.

[beelsebob]

To be honest I stopped believing Hamilton's testing comments since 2009 - since 2007 up to 2011 he's always said it's the best car he's ever driven

"I was just focusing on my job. I think we were out at similar times during the runs," Hamilton said of his race simulation.

Factually incorrect.

"I was always on used tyres and I think he started with new tyres in the second couple of stints, but generally he looked very, very competitive, perhaps a little bit faster than us.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97634

Used tyres would explain some of the difference certainly, though not all of it.

Its hardly quoting the stuff your comparing it too. Its not him talking about how the car feels early on in testing etc. This is far more factual comparing times with the RB and on what tyres. I believe that more than someone on here saying Mclaren arent anywhere near the front.

That's my problem with it – it's not factual – go look at the times, they are not similar. This is the lovely thing about facts – you can check if they're true or not.

[thestig84]

To be honest I stopped believing Hamilton's testing comments since 2009 - since 2007 up to 2011 he's always said it's the best car he's ever driven

"I was just focusing on my job. I think we were out at similar times during the runs," Hamilton said of his race simulation.

Factually incorrect.

"I was always on used tyres and I think he started with new tyres in the second couple of stints, but generally he looked very, very competitive, perhaps a little bit faster than us.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97634

Used tyres would explain some of the difference certainly, though not all of it.

Its hardly quoting the stuff your comparing it too. Its not him talking about how the car feels early on in testing etc. This is far more factual comparing times with the RB and on what tyres. I believe that more than someone on here saying Mclaren arent anywhere near the front.

That's my problem with it – it's not factual – go look at the times, they are not similar. This is the lovely thing about facts – you can check if they're true or not.

You have a problem with that like I have a problem with you stating they arent anywhere near the front. I have seen all the times thankyou (http://f1tests.co.cc/2012.php) I cant understand where your coming from looking at the times, comments from trackside, autosport live and the driver himself. Allowing for the usual testing not being a good gauge I still think they are in the ball park.

[beelsebob]

You have a problem with that like I have a problem with you stating they arent anywhere near the front. I have seen all the times thankyou (http://f1tests.co.cc/2012.php) I cant understand where your coming from looking at the times, comments from trackside, autosport live and the driver himself. Allowing for the usual testing not being a good gauge I still think they are in the ball park.

I honestly can't understand why you can't understand it tbh, but to reinforce my point, I did a tiny bit of stats...
I took all the times from 15:15 onwards. This time was chosen to remove as many of the very slow laps as I could – Hamilton's lap 77 was also very slow, I removed this from the stats too.

Over the course of these laps, Vettel averaged a 1:27.453, with a standard deviation of 1.7 seconds. Hamilton averaged a 1:28.774, with a standard deviation of 1.1 seconds.

Assuming the two teams are sand bagging a roughly equal amount (that's an enormous assumption, but it's all we can go on at the moment), McLaren have an average 1.3 seconds a lap slower race pace than RBR... That's not gonna put them at the front, is it?

[marcush.]

we have at least 4 seconds in fuelload + the tyre situation + low ambient and track temps to consider...Mymy it´s damn impossible to judge sitting at home in front of your pc..
last year Mclaren never showed any promise in testing and still they were damn near Vettel all year.On the other Hand Mercedes set a quickest time in Barcelona but never ever was even close to fighting for a pole positon..testing is not to make the public or competitors see ...it´s for evaluating and validating your assumptions and calculations.

[Ferraripilot]

From what I'm seeing so far, the RB is just a little better on tires still and is just a tiny bit quicker than the Mclaren in most areas, but the Mclaren appears to have better mechanical grip being quicker out of turn 1. Mclar reportedly having perhaps slightly better braking stability which I would put down due to better suspension and balance in general.

The Ferrari will probably qualify ok, but it appears to be eating through front tires very quickly and still has sluggish turn-in.

Mercedes have yet to show their hand in any way really, but I'm sure they will at the very least be quicker than the Ferrari. I heard they set the quickest S3 time of the day on some random lap.

Lotus will probably dice with the Ferrari and perhaps Williams. TR and FI and Williams will be an interesting match up if Williams is not a little ahead.