Mercedes W17

[Stu]

https://img.auto-motor-und-sport.de/_/b ... 277297.jpg

Ouch! Chapeau to the crew for putting that back together! He must have taken a fresh gearbox, surely? But no new PU?

Gives a great view of some barely seen/photographed elements of the car and really good look at some of the underlying structures.

[AR3-GP]

Hollow wheel spokes

How is the hollow spoke wheel manufactured? Is it cast?

[Winged_One]

Hollow wheel spokes

How is the hollow spoke wheel manufactured? Is it cast?

I wouldn't want to cast that, it's all very thin, takes a lot of effort to get good quality on parts like that. My guess would be that it's welded together from multiple parts.

[Brahmal]

https://www.planetf1.com/features/f1-20 ... nnovations

[Stu]

Hollow wheel spokes

https://images.ps-aws.com/c?url=https% ... 0x742.jpg

How is the hollow spoke wheel manufactured? Is it cast?

I wouldn't want to cast that, it's all very thin, takes a lot of effort to get good quality on parts like that. My guess would be that it's welded together from multiple parts.

They are usually forged rather than cast, these would require a complex forming process (multiple steps & forms).

[Martin Keene]

How is the hollow spoke wheel manufactured? Is it cast?

I wouldn't want to cast that, it's all very thin, takes a lot of effort to get good quality on parts like that. My guess would be that it's welded together from multiple parts.

They are usually forged rather than cast, these would require a complex forming process (multiple steps & forms).

I would suspect the wheel is forged with the wheel rim at 90 degrees to where it ends up, sort of parallel to the front face to allow the tooling into forge the hollow spokes and then the wheel rim will be metal spun into place, would be my guess.

[Farnborough]

The way they break I'd expect cast in magnesium alloy mix.

Likely to be 3D printed positive mold "blank" to create the pouring negative final foundry mould for casting. X-rayed, then machined to final.

[AR3-GP]

----

[Farnborough]

It would be significantly more integrated, materials wise, to cast in uniform construction.

Why would the "barrel" presumably the centre most structure ? need forging ? The most need for forgoing would be out at the rim edge not centre.

Cast centre and forged rim makes more structural sense in loading requirements.

There doesn't look to be any uniformly available cross sections to weld a forged rim to the spokes either in that topography.

[AR3-GP]

It would be significantly more integrated, materials wise, to cast in uniform construction.

Why would the "barrel" presumably the centre most structure ? need forging ? The most need for forgoing would be out at the rim edge not centre.

Cast centre and forged rim makes more structural sense in loading requirements.

There doesn't look to be any uniformly available cross sections to weld a forged rim to the spokes either in that topography.

This is the wheel "barrel" that I was referring to. I feel that the barrel is forged, and it has been somehow joined to the wheel spokes.

[Farnborough]

It would be significantly more integrated, materials wise, to cast in uniform construction.

Why would the "barrel" presumably the centre most structure ? need forging ? The most need for forgoing would be out at the rim edge not centre.

Cast centre and forged rim makes more structural sense in loading requirements.

There doesn't look to be any uniformly available cross sections to weld a forged rim to the spokes either in that topography.

This is the wheel "barrel" that I was referring to. I feel that the barrel is forged, and it has been somehow joined to the wheel spokes.

https://sc04.alicdn.com/kf/H052a58ae255 ... 03783Z.jpg

That example is completely different to the one we see from Antonelli debris.

The MB item in use has substantial holes and topography leading down into the spoke voids, with no obvious means of attaching to another structure.

Given that welding, in it's most competent and structurally effective form, is left and not ground away to "look good" is intrinsic to high stress weld site application .... there's absolutely no evidence of that process in the crashed wheel image.

[FNTC]

The hollow spokes with tire air in them, that should give some heat transfer from the brakes to the tire from the inside when warming up the tires I would think. Also, air going across the face of the wheel would help cool the tire air maybe helping degredation?

[AR3-GP]

That example is completely different to the one we see from Antonelli debris.

The MB item in use has substantial holes and topography leading down into the spoke voids, with no obvious means of attaching to another structure.

Given that welding, in it's most competent and structurally effective form, is left and not ground away to "look good" is intrinsic to high stress weld site application .... there's absolutely no evidence of that process in the crashed wheel image.

Looking at it again, I agree. There is no evidence of a welding operation. It looks like a cast wheel, as you suggested previously.

[Farnborough]

The hollow spokes with tire air in them, that should give some heat transfer from the brakes to the tire from the inside when warming up the tires I would think. Also, air going across the face of the wheel would help cool the tire air maybe helping degredation?

I'd not envisage such easy transfer, particularly since McL caused such interest and subsequently foar more detailed attention in design and concept of brake ducts.

These we are seeing this year really are grabbing the heat management of the disc and caliper to significant depth.

There's some good images over on AMR26 thread that are illustrative of the multi layered heat management and flow strategy that's more prevalent now.

Discreet in both entry flow and separation to evacuate heat saturated air is in most part responsible for their management, rather than conductor aspect into wheel assembly.

[Farnborough]

That example is completely different to the one we see from Antonelli debris.

The MB item in use has substantial holes and topography leading down into the spoke voids, with no obvious means of attaching to another structure.

Given that welding, in it's most competent and structurally effective form, is left and not ground away to "look good" is intrinsic to high stress weld site application .... there's absolutely no evidence of that process in the crashed wheel image.

Looking at it again, I agree. There is no evidence of a welding operation. It looks like a cast wheel, as you suggested previously.

They are intriguing, aren't they. And worthy of discussion here.

Its the thin "section" of the material at any of those visible, broken, points that give lead to it being of one structure.

Taking an informed guess, die cast magnesium alloy would be my view.

Welding ordinarily requires, and shows as, something of the interface it needs to give durable strength in a continuous structural path.

These do look finely balanced though in attribute vs light weight etc. They would seem to contribute significantly in reducing rotational mass where it matters most, at periphery, while linking in "eggshell" fashion to those spoke support elements.
Typical of such thin wall design is large radii and consequential spread of stress/load paths in controlling potential cyclic failure concentration points.

The whole, as assembly, tyre & rim when inflated, would appear to offer a optimum total structure while giving the broadest stability window in terms of temperature and load control. Just what good/clever/ in depth design should do.

Well done Antonelli for stacking it, giving us this opportunity to look inside