[ 2020 ] Aston Martin RedBull Racing F1 Team - Honda

[McMika98]

Hulk was actually slightly higher up on qualy position than Ric and in race Ric was quite a bit better. Ric is imho a much more complete driver than Hulk but on qualy speed Hulk won.

This actually would make Hulk quite similar to Bottas imho.

Danny wiped the floor with Hulk whilst still learning the car. 14 to 7 in quali.

https://www.racefans.net/2019/12/08/tea ... ulkenberg/

[Sieper]

Hulk has been slightly faster in qualy. This is also my personal viewpoint. Quite quick over one lap. Like Bottas. Loses out in the race, like Bottas. I don’t see why he could not be a good number 2. Like Bottas.

[godlameroso]

Speaking of races, next race will be interesting, now with more time to dial in the car with the new upgrades, I expect RB to be even faster in the corners. The next track has a lot of second and third gear corners and although Mercedes has the edge with engine power, they've fallen behind chassis wise. Tire wear won't be much of an issue, save for the rear left tire which takes the brunt of the damage. Still I expect a one stop or an aggressive two stop will be the ideal strategy. There will obviously be a safety car or two, new venue and all.

[zibby43]

Speaking of races, next race will be interesting, now with more time to dial in the car with the new upgrades, I expect RB to be even faster in the corners. The next track has a lot of second and third gear corners and although Mercedes has the edge with engine power, they've fallen behind chassis wise. Tire wear won't be much of an issue, save for the rear left tire which takes the brunt of the damage. Still I expect a one stop or an aggressive two stop will be the ideal strategy. There will obviously be a safety car or two, new venue and all.

I wouldn't say they've fallen behind. While they've made a deliberate decision to start focusing on the '21 car, they've also made a deliberate decision to run with less downforce to mitigate the effects of PU mode restrictions.

They've given up a little speed in the corners as a result.

"The engineers realized that they could no longer afford 'a lot of wing' because they could no longer have the many horses they had previously. For this reason, they decided to use the setup of compromise downloading the car to give priority to the speed on the straight at the expense of speed cornering."

"A choice that, at present, only Mercedes can afford to make because, even with less wing, it continues to have excellent cornering speeds (although not the best) and, thanks to the large load they have , they are able to exploit optimally tires even in very extreme environmental conditions like we had at the Nurburgring."

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2020 ... a-w11.html

Red Bull is definitely making huge strides with its car though. Exciting stuff.

[DChemTech]

Hulk has been slightly faster in qualy. This is also my personal viewpoint. Quite quick over one lap. Like Bottas. Loses out in the race, like Bottas. I don’t see why he could not be a good number 2. Like Bottas.

But... Bottas is a good number 2. He is fast enough to rake up solid points, but not so fast that he's actively contending with the number 1. Like Barichello and Coulthard were for Schumi and Hakkinen. I think both Perez and Hulkenberg would be fine number 2 drivers. They are not as fast as Max probably (very likely), but they both have shown to be capable of performing rather consistently. Perez is a bit more of an opportunity-snatcher, while I think Hulkenberg is a bit more consistent under normal conditions (but unstable when opportunities arise). I think both would perform better than Albon or Gasly, not necessarily on pure talent (although I do think they are somewhat better in that area, too), but on maturity and consistency. And RB seems to need those right now, more than they need another potential title contender.

[PowerandtheGlory]

Hulk was actually slightly higher up on qualy position than Ric and in race Ric was quite a bit better. Ric is imho a much more complete driver than Hulk but on qualy speed Hulk won.

This actually would make Hulk quite similar to Bottas imho.

Danny wiped the floor with Hulk whilst still learning the car. 14 to 7 in quali.

https://www.racefans.net/2019/12/08/tea ... ulkenberg/

Ricc was a match for Verstappen during his time there, both in race and other aspects, even though i think Max has grown again since those years... They are both at the head table with a few other racers. But Ricc cant really be a No.2. He has to be a No.1 hence the Mclaren move..

[etusch]

Hulk has been slightly faster in qualy. This is also my personal viewpoint. Quite quick over one lap. Like Bottas. Loses out in the race, like Bottas. I don’t see why he could not be a good number 2. Like Bottas.

But... Bottas is a good number 2. He is fast enough to rake up solid points, but not so fast that he's actively contending with the number 1. Like Barichello and Coulthard were for Schumi and Hakkinen. I think both Perez and Hulkenberg would be fine number 2 drivers. They are not as fast as Max probably (very likely), but they both have shown to be capable of performing rather consistently. Perez is a bit more of an opportunity-snatcher, while I think Hulkenberg is a bit more consistent under normal conditions (but unstable when opportunities arise). I think both would perform better than Albon or Gasly, not necessarily on pure talent (although I do think they are somewhat better in that area, too), but on maturity and consistency. And RB seems to need those right now, more than they need another potential title contender.

I don't think so. Perez is not so better with last year's mercedes. He also isn't look much better than stroll. I think it is a car easier to drive fast. But he does not seem shiny to me as performance.
Same can be said for Hulkenberg too. He is not good with that same car. Even if he started from back he must drive better, and must shine with that car. (Think that bottas was looking good with Williams but sucks with mercedes compared to Hamilton)
Gasly was not good with unmature Redbull but this year he is better with last year's mature Redbull (same but mature car he could not drive well) than Albon with this year's problematic Redbull. But Perez and Hulk is not so good with mature and good mercedes car. They are not that good with Mercedes, this mean they would be worse with this Redbull. Problem is not only with driver. Redbull must understand that first. If Albon could race good enough to be in first 3-4 every race, I believe Verstappen would fight for winnings every race.
Of course they are doing that performance comparison according to gap Albon to Verstappen with same car. This has its own logic. But I think they have to concentrate more to develop car to enable Albon to be there. I am not saying build car for Albon, build car as good as Albon can perform better. When car became that good there will not be problem with drivers and in worst condition they can bring Gasly. If car is there he can be at least a good second driver and always can fight for pole. His one lap performance looks better to me.

[Hammerfist]

Hulk has been slightly faster in qualy. This is also my personal viewpoint. Quite quick over one lap. Like Bottas. Loses out in the race, like Bottas. I don’t see why he could not be a good number 2. Like Bottas.

But... Bottas is a good number 2. He is fast enough to rake up solid points, but not so fast that he's actively contending with the number 1. Like Barichello and Coulthard were for Schumi and Hakkinen. I think both Perez and Hulkenberg would be fine number 2 drivers. They are not as fast as Max probably (very likely), but they both have shown to be capable of performing rather consistently. Perez is a bit more of an opportunity-snatcher, while I think Hulkenberg is a bit more consistent under normal conditions (but unstable when opportunities arise). I think both would perform better than Albon or Gasly, not necessarily on pure talent (although I do think they are somewhat better in that area, too), but on maturity and consistency. And RB seems to need those right now, more than they need another potential title contender.

I don't think so. Perez is not so better with last year's mercedes. He also isn't look much better than stroll. I think it is a car easier to drive fast. But he does not seem shiny to me as performance.
Same can be said for Hulkenberg too. He is not good with that same car. Even if he started from back he must drive better, and must shine with that car. (Think that bottas was looking good with Williams but sucks with mercedes compared to Hamilton)
Gasly was not good with unmature Redbull but this year he is better with last year's mature Redbull (same but mature car he could not drive well) than Albon with this year's problematic Redbull. But Perez and Hulk is not so good with mature and good mercedes car. They are not that good with Mercedes, this mean they would be worse with this Redbull. Problem is not only with driver. Redbull must understand that first. If Albon could race good enough to be in first 3-4 every race, I believe Verstappen would fight for winnings every race.
Of course they are doing that performance comparison according to gap Albon to Verstappen with same car. This has its own logic. But I think they have to concentrate more to develop car to enable Albon to be there. I am not saying build car for Albon, build car as good as Albon can perform better. When car became that good there will not be problem with drivers and in worst condition they can bring Gasly. If car is there he can be at least a good second driver and always can fight for pole. His one lap performance looks better to me.

Most of this. Yes.

It’s not that Albon is that bad. It’s that the car does not suit him that well. There is no guarantee that Hulkenberg or Perez would perform better. It entirely depends on how they can adapt to the car. They are all solid drivers imo. Hulk can be special with his one lap pace though and he would probably be closer to Max but I can see him struggle on race day if he cannot adapt to Max’s car.

Many drivers can look bad if the car does not suit their driving style.

[DChemTech]

Most of this. Yes.

It’s not that Albon is that bad. It’s that the car does not suit him that well. There is no guarantee that Hulkenberg or Perez would perform better. It entirely depends on how they can adapt to the car. They are all solid drivers imo. Hulk can be special with his one lap pace though and he would probably be closer to Max but I can see him struggle on race day if he cannot adapt to Max’s car.

Many drivers can look bad if the car does not suit their driving style.

Well, no, there's never a guarantee that if you move a driver to another team they will perform well, even an experienced one. Vettel is case in point. But what we do know is that Albon is not handling this car well, after 1+ year, and does not seem to be improving a lot either. Of Hulk and Perez we do know that they have been performing decently to good in several teams, both within the previous and current regulations. In doubt, you can always give them a simtest, or even regular FP1 or wintertest. Even that won't be a guarantee, but it is clear RB needs a steady second driver (not another max, a Bottas would do), and they don't seem to have that right now. Bringing in some from outside of the team, with a fresh view and a good track record seems to me a smarter step than to keep bringing in inexperienced drivers that have shown to be uncomfortable with the car.

[Wynters]

Hulk has been slightly faster in qualy. This is also my personal viewpoint. Quite quick over one lap. Like Bottas. Loses out in the race, like Bottas. I don’t see why he could not be a good number 2. Like Bottas.

I would hope that RBR would aim higher than having a worse version of Mercedes worst driver? Bottas is a weak point for Mercedes, RBR should exploit it ruthlessly. Every race Bottas doesn't drive well / problem free, he should be fourth (at best). Do that and Hamilton looks a lot more vulnerable over a season.

Same can be said for Hulkenberg too. He is not good with that same car. Even if he started from back he must drive better, and must shine with that car.

I don't buy the Hulk hype but, having said that, I'm not sure I expect anyone to arrive in a car as it's being prepped for Quali (at a track not usually in the rotation) and then 'shine' with it in the race. The skill / knowledge ceiling is too high in modern F1.

If Albon could race good enough to be in first 3-4 every race, I believe Verstappen would fight for winnings every race.

How would Albon consistently finishing 4th allow the RBR to close a c.0.4% gap to the Mercedes?

[Wynters]

Red Bull is definitely making huge strides with its car though. Exciting stuff.

Agreed. I think they've found as much as 0.15% lap time.

I know this seems like a tiny amount, but if the lap is 1:40.000 on average (or 100 seconds) and you find 1%, then you've found a full second. In this case, I think RBR has found c.1/10th on a lap of that length with a representative mix of corner types and straights.

I'm experimenting with measuring cross-race gaps in terms of % rather than 10ths because 10ths is so misleading. If I'm driving a car that's 1 second-a-lap slower over the course of a 70-second lap (like Austria), then I'm going to have a much bigger time gap (c.1.6 seconds) when the next race is at a course with a 110-second lap (like Spa), even if there has been no change in the relative performance of the cars.

[TNTHead]

Hulk has been slightly faster in qualy. This is also my personal viewpoint. Quite quick over one lap. Like Bottas. Loses out in the race, like Bottas. I don’t see why he could not be a good number 2. Like Bottas.

I looked it up, but actually the racefans link doesn't calculate the average grid position accurately: It takes a DNS as gridposition 0 and takes that in the average...

Qualy battle between Hulk en Ric was 7 - 14, so although Hulk was quite a few times higher (and very close to RIC in 1 lap pace) Ric did outperform Hulk.

Nonetheless I think Hulk could be a good second driver at RB. Meanwhile they should also work on his confidence driving at the top of the grid. Still hoping for a podium finisch of Hulk...

[Sieper]

Red Bull is definitely making huge strides with its car though. Exciting stuff.

Agreed. I think they've found as much as 0.15% lap time.

I know this seems like a tiny amount, but if the lap is 1:40.000 on average (or 100 seconds) and you find 1%, then you've found a full second. In this case, I think RBR has found c.1/10th on a lap of that length with a representative mix of corner types and straights.

I'm experimenting with measuring cross-race gaps in terms of % rather than 10ths because 10ths is so misleading. If I'm driving a car that's 1 second-a-lap slower over the course of a 70-second lap (like Austria), then I'm going to have a much bigger time gap (c.1.6 seconds) when the next race is at a course with a 110-second lap (like Spa), even if there has been no change in the relative performance of the cars.

Please do, I know it is a lot of work but I agree it says much!

[Sieper]

Hulk has been slightly faster in qualy. This is also my personal viewpoint. Quite quick over one lap. Like Bottas. Loses out in the race, like Bottas. I don’t see why he could not be a good number 2. Like Bottas.

I looked it up, but actually the racefans link doesn't calculate the average grid position accurately: It takes a DNS as gridposition 0 and takes that in the average...

Qualy battle between Hulk en Ric was 7 - 14, so although Hulk was quite a few times higher (and very close to RIC in 1 lap pace) Ric did outperform Hulk.

Nonetheless I think Hulk could be a good second driver at RB. Meanwhile they should also work on his confidence driving at the top of the grid. Still hoping for a podium finisch of Hulk...

It was also based on my personal feeling, Hulk is reasonably fast in qualy, Ricci is quite a high benchmark. He, Hulk, was fast in Silverstone, faster then both own RP drivers (would have been). I hope I did not sound like I was on the hype train. Not sure how close he would be to Max. Could be closer then Albon but who knows. But perez would put Max in the wall in a Fight and Hulk has always been much more coolheaded then Perez.

[tangodjango]

Speaking of races, next race will be interesting, now with more time to dial in the car with the new upgrades, I expect RB to be even faster in the corners. The next track has a lot of second and third gear corners and although Mercedes has the edge with engine power, they've fallen behind chassis wise. Tire wear won't be much of an issue, save for the rear left tire which takes the brunt of the damage. Still I expect a one stop or an aggressive two stop will be the ideal strategy. There will obviously be a safety car or two, new venue and all.

I wouldn't say they've fallen behind. While they've made a deliberate decision to start focusing on the '21 car, they've also made a deliberate decision to run with less downforce to mitigate the effects of PU mode restrictions.

They've given up a little speed in the corners as a result.

"The engineers realized that they could no longer afford 'a lot of wing' because they could no longer have the many horses they had previously. For this reason, they decided to use the setup of compromise downloading the car to give priority to the speed on the straight at the expense of speed cornering."

"A choice that, at present, only Mercedes can afford to make because, even with less wing, it continues to have excellent cornering speeds (although not the best) and, thanks to the large load they have , they are able to exploit optimally tires even in very extreme environmental conditions like we had at the Nurburgring."

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2020 ... a-w11.html

Red Bull is definitely making huge strides with its car though. Exciting stuff.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes ... -time-ago/

It`s the same story as every year. Rinse and repeat.