2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[FittingMechanics]

So in the sim they designed a car that would run a few Mls lower, but they can't actually run this low without getting DSQ and they don't yet know how to get there?

Not only this season is a bust, i'd be very concerned about this same group designing future cars.

To me as an Ferrari outsider it seems quite obvious that it is ride height related. This is why they are always saying they know what their issue is (they can't run at ride height that generates enough downforce) and that they don't know when/how they will fix it.

If it was just general downforce they wouldn't give such clear answers about knowing what the issue is. It also explains DSQ and good pace in the sprint (where they can run lower).

[deadhead]

1 second per lap is extraordinary when you consider how painfully slow McLaren car was in Miami two years ago

[ringo]

A whole new suspension is probably in development and testing in the background and will be released soon.

The engine failures of the customers is a concern. Have not seen a failure like this in a while. It wasn't an oil leak or loss of cooling; it looked like a valvetrain failure.
We should hear from Sauber and HAAS on exactly what took place.

[dia6olo]

So in the sim they designed a car that would run a few Mls lower, but they can't actually run this low without getting DSQ and they don't yet know how to get there?

Not only this season is a bust, i'd be very concerned about this same group designing future cars.

To me as an Ferrari outsider it seems quite obvious that it is ride height related. This is why they are always saying they know what their issue is (they can't run at ride height that generates enough downforce) and that they don't know when/how they will fix it.

If it was just general downforce they wouldn't give such clear answers about knowing what the issue is. It also explains DSQ and good pace in the sprint (where they can run lower).

I think if there's any one thing this new rule set has shown, it is that ride height is a significant factor and very likely by far the easiest way any team can gain lap time.

Since these new rules came into effect Ferrari have kind of always like most teams had issues around the ideal ride height, but with that said, they kind of started to look like they had mostly figured it out in 2024, they then took a wrong step with an upgrade which was corrected as the season progressed and finished 2024 relatively strongly.

The thing with that, that really annoys me is that with all the ride height issues they have seen and had to deal with over the previouys 3 seasons, one assumes they must have accumulated a lot of data and learnt a lot in the process, yet they have somehow still managed to screw up with the SF-25 even after having seemingly got on top of it in 2024

[codetower]

Teams dont design cars for specific drivers. Differences in driving styles are ultimately VERY subtle in the grand scheme of things, and no F1 team is so insanely competent that they can design a car with the EXACT specific subtleties in mind of a specific driver's preferences. If they were capable of this, then every team would be capable of producing a top car every year. Nobody would be making a car with any kind of issues at all, cuz they'd just design the car to not have those characteristics. But obviously it never actually works like that.

Ferrari doesn't have any problem with drivers or who is or isn't getting prioritized. This seems like such a bizarre thing to be worrying about.

No, they wont design the car for a specific driver, but upgrades can definitely affect one driver more than the other. If one driver wants/needs a stronger turn in, the team might focus the front wing upgrades for this specifically. Some of the upgrades might affect the setup window making it more difficult for the other driver to set up the car to their liking. We've seen it here recently how an upgrade would benefit Sainz but make it more difficult for Leclerc to adapt, and vice versa. Last year at RB, as upgrades came in, Max got stronger and Sergio fell back. Driving styles may be subtle, but I'm sure when the team is deciding what "weakness" of the car to focus on, they are taking one or both of the drivers "style" into account.

From last year, Red Bull got trickier but faster but Max could handled it, Perez not. This is the way Red Bull can drag that car in the lead, if they would have listen to Perez, Lawson or Tsunoda the car would be slower and understeery. Confirmed by Wache, Newey and Horner and they always listen to that who drives it faster. When people are saying the car is built for Max, it's actually build for fast and talented drivers and other options would just be slower.

if they would have listen to Perez, Lawson or Tsunoda the car would be slower and understeery

It would have been slower for Max, but for PER, LAW and TSU it would probably have given them better times than they had.

Confirmed by Wache, Newey and Horner and they always listen to that who drives it faster.

This is basically my point. The teams should listen to the faster driver. All these drivers are fast and talented, but the subtle differences in driving styles can have a big swing one way or another. Sainz, Albon, Gasley, Ricciardo... all talented and fast, but they struggled in the Red Bull.

Right now I don't want to see an upgrade that will get Hamilton closer to Leclerc. I want to see an upgrade that will get Leclerc closer to Oscar/Max/Russel. If it makes Hamilton's driving more difficult, so be it. Like Wache, Newey and Horner did, Ferrari need to listen to the faster driver.

[Luscion]

No, they wont design the car for a specific driver, but upgrades can definitely affect one driver more than the other. If one driver wants/needs a stronger turn in, the team might focus the front wing upgrades for this specifically. Some of the upgrades might affect the setup window making it more difficult for the other driver to set up the car to their liking. We've seen it here recently how an upgrade would benefit Sainz but make it more difficult for Leclerc to adapt, and vice versa. Last year at RB, as upgrades came in, Max got stronger and Sergio fell back. Driving styles may be subtle, but I'm sure when the team is deciding what "weakness" of the car to focus on, they are taking one or both of the drivers "style" into account.

From last year, Red Bull got trickier but faster but Max could handled it, Perez not. This is the way Red Bull can drag that car in the lead, if they would have listen to Perez, Lawson or Tsunoda the car would be slower and understeery. Confirmed by Wache, Newey and Horner and they always listen to that who drives it faster. When people are saying the car is built for Max, it's actually build for fast and talented drivers and other options would just be slower.

if they would have listen to Perez, Lawson or Tsunoda the car would be slower and understeery

It would have been slower for Max, but for PER, LAW and TSU it would probably have given them better times than they had.

Confirmed by Wache, Newey and Horner and they always listen to that who drives it faster.

This is basically my point. The teams should listen to the faster driver. All these drivers are fast and talented, but the subtle differences in driving styles can have a big swing one way or another. Sainz, Albon, Gasley, Ricciardo... all talented and fast, but they struggled in the Red Bull.

Right now I don't want to see an upgrade that will get Hamilton closer to Leclerc. I want to see an upgrade that will get Leclerc closer to Oscar/Max/Russel. If it makes Hamilton's driving more difficult, so be it. Like Wache, Newey and Horner did, Ferrari need to listen to the faster driver.

the same red bull who admitted they didnt listen to Max's concerns about the car's issues because they were fast and winning everything, the same red bull who apologized to Perez for not realizing how hard the car was to drive until Max started having issues driving it? Max has made it very clear he's upset with the Perez and Lawson driver changes because the issue to him was never them, it was the car. Only focusing on one driver isnt it when your not miles ahead of everyone


Wache on the RB21

“The 2024 car had potential, but it was complex to use and also treacherous in difficult conditions.

“The car was very sharp and because of those characteristics, drivers could not use the car well in all conditions.

“For this year, we may have lowered the potential a bit, but drivers should be able to use the car better.

“If you have a driver like Max Verstappen, you can reduce the window and win races, but maybe we went too far in that. As a result, we changed our vision. Not completely, but a little bit.”

https://racingnews365.com/red-bull-admi ... -downgrade


from Charles' own mouth him and Lewis have very similar driving styles, they both like a pointy front end but lewis also needs a stable rear end which the sf-25 doesnt have, give it a sable rear end, it benefits them both. i dont understand this needing to focus on one driver thing with ferrari especially when theyre 150+ points away from Mclaren in the WCC and the WDC is basically over for both ferrari drivers

[DJ Downforce]

There's people in here pushing people to get angry as if staging a rebellion in Tudor England. It's not like Fred Vasseur is going to read these posts and say "guys, DJ Downforce and the gang on F1technical have just called us sh**. Let's solve these problems now and bring a complete fix to Imola".

I'm sure the team themselves are more angry and frustrated than we are and are pushing hard to produce a better package for future races.

The worst mistake people made was having hope before the season. I got caught up in it too but I'm not crying or getting angry now, I'm waiting patiently for the team to hopefully produce a fix. With any luck a good 26 car too lol!!

Let's all take a breather, and for god sake please stop blaming the drivers. A driver fan war is the last thing this thread needs.

[dia6olo]

With the exception of a couple of years, Ferrari have finished in the top 3 for the past 15 years, on that bases they have had a solid 15 year spell.
The problem is that it has never progressed from 2nd/3rd best, it's been 15 years of two steps forward, one step back or one step forward 2 steps back in what feels like forever

[CRazyLemon]

With the exception of a couple of years, Ferrari have finished in the top 3 for the past 15 years, on that bases they have had a solid 15 year spell.
The problem is that it has never progressed from 2nd/3rd best, it's been 15 years of two steps forward, one step back or one step forward 2 steps back in what feels like forever

Yip, always the bridesmaid, somehow when the dominant fore in F1 fails, it is never Ferrari to step into that gap, it also almost always happens off the back of a good year. 2018 being an exception off the back of 2017. They simply can never take momentum across. There seems to be a habit of over correction on the cars weaknesses from the previous year and that results in an unbalanced package for the next season.

[Vanja #66]

so what i've been told leads to a conclusion that the barcelona package (some things will also arrive in imola in advance, so to speak) will be very significant and something like miami 24 package for mcl - if ferrari have done a good enough job on fixing the core rear end issue

the mechanical issue is probably the same thing that made barcelona 24 package a complete dud, which required very specific aero solutions on monza floor to improve the car - hence why they are aware sf24 couldn't be improved more than it already has and full redesign was needed

the issue is that the specific assembly upgrade they are preparing for barcelona was defined by a person no longer in the team, by the time new people came and took over it was too late to make a big change and i guess everyone was crossing fingers - this whole part is the most speculative, but also the least important

none of these information came to me directly from anyone in the team, bits and pieces come from various insiders and i've put it all together, we are in agreement on conclusions - if the problem is well and truly solved successfully

when the information goes public, i will expand on the details

[DJ Downforce]

so what i've been told leads to a conclusion that the barcelona package (some things will also arrive in imola in advance, so to speak) will be very significant and something like miami 24 package for mcl - if ferrari have done a good enough job on fixing the core rear end issue

the mechanical issue is probably the same thing that made barcelona 24 package a complete dud, which required very specific aero solutions on monza floor to improve the car - hence why they are aware sf24 couldn't be improved more than it already has and full redesign was needed

the issue is that the specific assembly upgrade they are preparing for barcelona was defined by a person no longer in the team, by the time new people came and took over it was too late to make a big change and i guess everyone was crossing fingers - this whole part is the most speculative, but also the least important

none of these information came to me directly from anyone in the team, bits and pieces come from various insiders and i've put it all together, we are in agreement on conclusions - if the problem is well and truly solved successfully

when the information goes public, i will expand on the details

Let's hope they've created the right solutions. If it doesn't work out, I feel they'll just move onto next year.

[Space-heat]

so what i've been told leads to a conclusion that the barcelona package (some things will also arrive in imola in advance, so to speak) will be very significant and something like miami 24 package for mcl - if ferrari have done a good enough job on fixing the core rear end issue

the mechanical issue is probably the same thing that made barcelona 24 package a complete dud, which required very specific aero solutions on monza floor to improve the car - hence why they are aware sf24 couldn't be improved more than it already has and full redesign was needed

the issue is that the specific assembly upgrade they are preparing for barcelona was defined by a person no longer in the team, by the time new people came and took over it was too late to make a big change and i guess everyone was crossing fingers - this whole part is the most speculative, but also the least important

none of these information came to me directly from anyone in the team, bits and pieces come from various insiders and i've put it all together, we are in agreement on conclusions - if the problem is well and truly solved successfully

when the information goes public, i will expand on the details

Talk about an injection of hopium.

Amazing if the Spain package resolves the issue. Confidence is limited, as we seem to be hit or miss. SF24 Launch was great, Imola 24 marginal improvement, Spain 24 disaster, Monza 24 good improvement, COTA/Vegas 24 flexi wing/experimental floor decent improvement, SF25 launch disaster, Bahrain 25 marginal improvement.

The concern is how much of the current issue is in the DNA of the car and can't be resolved but only worked around. It does seem that braking is also an issue for the SF25, albeit much less than the rear. It is probably good that they are focused on actually fixing the issue outright and not bringing minor continuous changes to work around the issue. /

The tone from some of the AR guys (Smilextech) post Miami outlook doesn't fill me with hope.

[Vanja #66]

The concern is how much of the current issue is in the DNA of the car and can't be resolved but only worked around

DNA is fine, which is why Vasseur and drivers keep repeating they are waiting for (target) upgrades

They are performing a failing kidney transplant with a healthy one, I think that's a good expression

[DJ Downforce]

EVERY major issue is due to the higher ride height issue. I will die on this hill

[basti313]

EVERY major issue is due to the higher ride height issue. I will die on this hill

Why do you think this is even a Ferrari specific issue? There is still no evidence or even faint indication that they are forced to run more ride height than their competitors.