Do you want Refueling back?

[Mr Alcatraz]

I think the things that make this seasons reg's that include no refueling unappealing to some enthusiasts,
are the other changes that could be argued compound full tanks.
Look how much the landscape has changed over the last two seasons.
No in-season testing, radically different tires, DRS as used in quali’ and race.
I'm going to also include extremely reliable power plants.
I like the formula,(especially with the comming ban on blown exhaust) but it has caused drivers and constructors to adjust,
and it is apparent which ones have done the best job. Next season will not be a run away.

[ringo]

Now that the season is done.

It's not mathematically possible that lack of fueling creates strategy. Refueling is an added variable. You can't have more variables that result in less strategy. It doesn't add up.
Webber has been quoted many times bemoaning the loss of refueling, so has hamilton.

I don't find the full tanks exiting. In fact none of the races this year was blazing fast. Tenths of a second per lap didn't matter this year, as half way through you know the result 90% of the time.

If you had refueling, you could expect a game changer any time in the race, 10% in or 95% in the race.


bring back refueling!

[strad]

Webber has been quoted many times bemoaning the loss of refueling, so has hamilton.

.
No doubt. Neither seems to do well on full tanks. They like running on empty to have a light nimble car. No surprise.
.

I don't find the full tanks exiting. In fact none of the races this year was blazing fast. Tenths of a second per lap didn't matter this year, as half way through you know the result 90% of the time.

.
You can blame RedBull and Vettle for that..Nothing to do with refueling or tires or even DRS.

If you had refueling, you could expect a game changer any time in the race, 10% in or 95% in the race.

.
Huh? Ya mean if the crew screwed up or the driver pulls away with the hose or they set themselves on fire? If all goes as planned we know their strategy and know when they'll stop...and please don't tell me you enjoy or find exciting a guy passing or winning on the timing of a pit stop.

[ringo]

Strad have you been watching the races this year?
There were millions of passes taking place in the pits, and it's reaping 4 seconds and 3 seconds each stop.
It's not like in the refueling days where you can get a 1 second jump. Now you can jump 15 laps worth of running good laps with 1 tyre stop. 5 or 4 seconds is easy to come by in the pits nowadays thanks to pirelli.
On track racing has been rather dull this year. Don't want to bring Hamilton into this, but he's the only thing making racing appear to be good this year. Take him out and you have forgetable dull overtakes.
I rather the on the limit, chip away at the clock going fast as you can racing, than this tyre life DRS overtake crap.

The reality is full tank racing is extremely predictable. If its a 50 lap race, it's 20 laps in the last stint on hards, and split the other 30 on the softs.
It's too predictable nowadays and 1 dimensional. Fuel is not a factor so tyre life is. And all the cars can go the same distances on the tyres anyway, so as the red lighs go out, bar any uneventualities like mechanical issues, you know what's going to happen.

If we had refueling, you would see teams taking different approaches to when they come in for tyres, and fuel. The fuel weight can give more dimension to strategy.

[strad]

I KNOW we still had pitstops and therein is the rub...They didn't really change anything except what they stopped for.
You still have the same stupid sprint racing as before.

[beelsebob]

It's not mathematically possible that lack of fueling creates strategy.

Yes and no – the teams have no options that they didn't have before, but... They still have a choice between options, they're just worse options than they used to be. Instead of deciding when to refuel they now decide when to fuel save, how much to start on etc. Strategy has not really been removed here, just hidden. In hiding the strategy from viewers they've made watching it more interesting, because you're trying to figure out more unknowns.

[ringo]

They have less options now.
It's all about the tyre life. Nothing else.
Fuel saving isn't even strategy. It's like engine saving.
The last i have seen it was in turkey. After that the teams found a balance with fuel and i never heard of it again.
Anyhow i don't see fuel saving as anything exciting. Neither is trundling around Waiting for the other car's tyres to go off so you can drive pass in an almost cold blooded overtake.

The idea that banning refueling to promote on track racing was flawed. This can only work with tyres that last forever. The undercut in the pits was used in rfueling days only because of the speed difference with the cars. It wasn't so much related to the refueling itself.
Now the tyre performance is the speed difference, and it is being used as the undercut opportunity.
Teams will always find was of passing in the pits.

[N12ck]

Racing now is :
Wait for DRS,
Wait for Tyres to go off,
Wait for them to save fuel or you to save fuel,

Used to be:
Strategy in pits,
Pure racing, trying to be faster and faster every lap (not taking care of tyres)
Battles which lasted more than 3 laps (now due to DRS they last less than 3 laps)

Yes there may be more overtakes, but as ringo said, they have been cold blooded, strategic and no purity to it, and the overtakes have not been as interesting, its more interesting to see people out-braking into corners than sailing past in a DRS zone IMO.

I say: bring back refueling, make tyres that last, allow teams to have as many engines as they would like, scrap DRS, bring back proper racing!

anyways that's my 2pence worth

[beelsebob]

Racing now is :
Wait for DRS,
Wait for Tyres to go off,
Wait for them to save fuel or you to save fuel,

Used to be:
Strategy in pits,
Pure racing, trying to be faster and faster every lap (not taking care of tyres)
Battles which lasted more than 3 laps (now due to DRS they last less than 3 laps)

Put in the same biased way, but the other way round:
Racing now is:
Using drag reduction to stay with someone who's destroying your downforce.
Strategy in having the right tyres at the right time.
Strategy in using engine modes effectively to make sure you have fuel/power at apropriate times:

Used to be:
Follow them round until they pitted.
Relying on a driver who makes up only 20% of the package to magically make a massive difference in one tiny section of race track.
Getting stuck behind someone for lap after lap because you had no downforce if you got near them.

Yes there may be more overtakes, but as ringo said, they have been cold blooded, strategic and no purity to it, and the overtakes have not been as interesting, its more interesting to see people out-braking into corners than sailing past in a DRS zone IMO.

Seriously? We've spent half the year arguing about overtaking manoeuvres that didn't quite come off in breaking zones, and yelling fanboy at each other because we happened to say hamilton was {right | wrong}... You're seriously trying to claim that all the overtaking is done and dusted on the straight?

I say: bring back refueling, make tyres that last, allow teams to have as many engines as they would like, scrap DRS, bring back proper racing!

So basically... go back to 2004, when the racing was dull, and the TV ratings reflected it? No thanks.

[N12ck]

all im saying is scrap DRS, scrap Tyres that go off if you actually try to do a fast laptime, and bring back refueling, we can argue about this for days, but racing is not about conservation of tyres/ opening a rear wing to pass someone, also you dont see indycar getting a call to save fuel/ look after tyres, on street circuits.

When you are moving up the ranks in racing, you race to overtake, go as fast as possible. Not to look after tyres/ save fuel, take a look at karting for what I mean by pure racing

[beelsebob]

all im saying is scrap DRS, scrap Tyres that go off if you actually try to do a fast laptime, and bring back refueling, we can argue about this for days, but racing is not about conservation of tyres/ opening a rear wing to pass someone, also you dont see indycar getting a call to save fuel/ look after tyres, on street circuits.

When you are moving up the ranks in racing, you race to overtake, go as fast as possible. Not to look after tyres/ save fuel, take a look at karting for what I mean by pure racing

Count me out thanks. I stopped watching F1 for nearly a decade because it was like that. The result was boring, predictable racing.

[N12ck]

Count me out thanks. I stopped watching F1 for nearly a decade because it was like that. The result was boring, predictable racing.

Each to there own, I just prefer racing where the driver has to work a bit harder to gain a position (probably down to myself racing in karts) It just annoys me to see people sailing past on a straight with DRS, or having to save fuel when the driver could have won if they didnt have to save fuel. I think its became a bit too gimicky

[strad]

Who's saving fuel? This isn't like the fuel economy races of old when they didn't have enough fuel allotted.
They have an allotment to last the race no problem...Where the fuel saving comes in is when the UNDER fill them trying to save a little.
Simple enough...demand they run full tanks.

[N12ck]

+1 I agree, something needs to come in, whether its refueling, a mandated amount of fuel you must carry, or a fixed tank size which everyone must fill full

[beelsebob]

Who's saving fuel? This isn't like the fuel economy races of old when they didn't have enough fuel allotted.
They have an allotment to last the race no problem...Where the fuel saving comes in is when the UNDER fill them trying to save a little.
Simple enough...demand they run full tanks.

Define "full tanks" – the maximum capacity of the fuel tank? That'll just result in a few more MVR-01s – designed with too small a tank for all the races. The top teams might even do this deliberately to win all the other races.