Red Bull RB21

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
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chrisc90
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Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: Red Bull RB21

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venkyhere wrote:
08 Oct 2025, 07:29
FW17 wrote:
07 Oct 2025, 07:58
Why is the gear downshifts always a problem for Max? Is it him being in the wrong configuration on his steering wheel or is it something that is a hardware issue that has limited the performance through the degerdation cycle.
This "shifts being a problem" - we've been hearing this sporadically in random races, since 2022, iirc.
I think it's got to do with something in the powertrain that can't be 'solved' perhaps because Honda haven't been there in full capacity in the ground effect era, or because it will blow their budget working on powertrain redesign.
Or it could be down to how the car harvest energy, or how aggressive the diff settings are for braking, corner entry and mid corner.

I do remember GP offering max toggle options, or torque modes in Singapore to try get a bit more from the car
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

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Paa
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Joined: 26 Aug 2022, 13:43

Re: Red Bull RB21

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chrisc90 wrote:
08 Oct 2025, 13:21
venkyhere wrote:
08 Oct 2025, 07:29
FW17 wrote:
07 Oct 2025, 07:58
Why is the gear downshifts always a problem for Max? Is it him being in the wrong configuration on his steering wheel or is it something that is a hardware issue that has limited the performance through the degerdation cycle.
This "shifts being a problem" - we've been hearing this sporadically in random races, since 2022, iirc.
I think it's got to do with something in the powertrain that can't be 'solved' perhaps because Honda haven't been there in full capacity in the ground effect era, or because it will blow their budget working on powertrain redesign.
Or it could be down to how the car harvest energy, or how aggressive the diff settings are for braking, corner entry and mid corner.

I do remember GP offering max toggle options, or torque modes in Singapore to try get a bit more from the car
It could be just something that Max is hypersensitive to.
I don't remember any of his teammates ever complaining about this.

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venkyhere
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Joined: 10 Feb 2024, 06:17

Re: Red Bull RB21

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Image
(borrowed this image from AR3GP's post in team thread)

@Farnborough, the shadows clearly demonstrate the difference between the RB21's front wing and others. We can see the proper 'dihedral' (water molecule like, isn't it?) nature of the wings and the high set nose.
Also something which I hadn't noticed before, how they have brought some 'taper' to the duck-billed-platypus nose. I am sure it wasn't there before, perhaps the singapore update to the FW has applied this taper.

Farnborough
Farnborough
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Joined: 18 Mar 2023, 14:15

Re: Red Bull RB21

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Interesting comparison of the three wing there in same shot.

I'm uncertain if the shadow fully describes the effect we observe, that coming from sunlight direction being high and slightly rearward to project the fairly common "arrowhead" plan view onto the ground in front of the cars.

The lift in toward the centre of the RB though, I associate that with the lowest wing flap being oriented as such PLUS the very front of that flap having it's edge raised too, this to change its efficiency over greater speed range, likely to promote more consistent attachment of trailing edge flow when using increased angle of attack. It all combined appears to bring both efficiency and wider operational choices for load.

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venkyhere
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Joined: 10 Feb 2024, 06:17

Re: Red Bull RB21

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Farnborough wrote:
24 Oct 2025, 16:52
I'm uncertain if the shadow fully describes the effect we observe, that coming from sunlight direction being high and slightly rearward to project the fairly common "arrowhead" plan view onto the ground in front of the cars.
The way I ascertained the dihedral effect, is by comparing the 'gap' between the wing itself and it's shadow. Since the sun is so far away as to neutralize any difference in the projection angle of the shadows on the three cars, and the conjecture that this is a 'zoomed in' pic from a drone/heli that was flying fairly high from the track surface ; that 'gap' is a fairly reliable way to draw inference, isn't it ?

Farnborough
Farnborough
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Joined: 18 Mar 2023, 14:15

Re: Red Bull RB21

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venkyhere wrote:
24 Oct 2025, 17:03
Farnborough wrote:
24 Oct 2025, 16:52
I'm uncertain if the shadow fully describes the effect we observe, that coming from sunlight direction being high and slightly rearward to project the fairly common "arrowhead" plan view onto the ground in front of the cars.
The way I ascertained the dihedral effect, is by comparing the 'gap' between the wing itself and it's shadow. Since the sun is so far away as to neutralize any difference in the projection angle of the shadows on the three cars, that 'gap' is a fairly reliable way to draw inference, isn't it ?
I can see what you mean, just uncertain as to accuracy in making a statement as such on here that will stand up to detailed scrutiny.
I can certainly see, from alignment of trajectory the bottom flap if you follow it across from outside end near end plate, and how the RB describes an arc rising through that distance, as tge other two (in same modelling of light direction) show straight line.

We both agree, I think, as to this affect being more pronounced as both having made the same observation a while back, curiously not attracting much attention on forum though :D

It would seem to go hand in hand with their uptick in general performance though, and appear to contribute substantially toward giving a more rounded and malleable setup for them to work with.

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SilviuAgo
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Joined: 15 Aug 2020, 16:08

Re: Red Bull RB21

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Amazing shot from Mexico (@carpentiers_f1):

Image

Opening on the #RedBull. One can see the Honda engine. Enjoy!

Henk_v
Henk_v
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Joined: 24 Feb 2022, 13:41

Re: Red Bull RB21

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Confirmed on motorsport.com; new floor!

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organic
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Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: Red Bull RB21

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Henk_v wrote:
24 Oct 2025, 19:01
Confirmed on motorsport.com; new floor!
Seems to just be a modified version of the previous spec.

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venkyhere
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Joined: 10 Feb 2024, 06:17

Re: Red Bull RB21

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As a consequence, there is a fewer amount of air available foir the car to use to optimise its performance, reducing the downforce generated by around 35%/40%, together with the air entering the radiators.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/tech/f1-tech- ... -in-mexico

labelled a 'tech' article, but I am not sure whether the 35-40% load reduction number is correct. My basic understanding is that the air-density ('ro') that appears in aerodynamic load equations is assumed to be 'linear' until the speeds are less than 1 mach (which would translate to roughly <400+ kph at sea level), so this 35-40% claim is not sitting right with me, since the Mexico air density is 25% or so less than sea level. Will there be such an inflated penalty ?
Experts kindly advise.

Henk_v
Henk_v
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Joined: 24 Feb 2022, 13:41

Re: Red Bull RB21

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Use different AI.

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AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: Red Bull RB21

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Edit: Incorrect
Last edited by AR3-GP on 25 Oct 2025, 11:07, edited 2 times in total.
It doesn't turn.

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organic
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Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: Red Bull RB21

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AR3-GP wrote:
24 Oct 2025, 20:11
The sidepod inlet looks a bit different now. The vertical divider is nearly flat, and the split line is in a different place. The fin under the sidepod also has a different shape.

Imola:

https://i.postimg.cc/FK0tMMJF/image.png


Mexico:
https://i.postimg.cc/vZLkXrRT/image.png
They already changed the sidepod inlets in the ways you have highlighted at Belgium

Image

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AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: Red Bull RB21

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Noted
It doesn't turn.

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AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: Red Bull RB21

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The extra cooling added for Saturday

Image
It doesn't turn.