HRT 2012

[raymondu999]

Why not just use a 2013 legal-modified car, based on the 2012 car? Take the pain of being supreme ovelords of P23/24 over 2013, then build it up for 2014.

[beelsebob]

Why not just use a 2013 legal-modified car, based on the 2012 car? Take the pain of being supreme ovelords of P23/24 over 2013, then build it up for 2014.

Remember, they only just got a car out in 2011 when it was only a minor modifications year. I really think the resources of this team are too small to do what you're proposing. That all said, perhaps this should be moved to the team thread, we're not really discussing anything on the car her.

[cbbcisace]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 350589.cms

[ESPImperium]

Looks like HRT have some new sponsorship from Roca a spanish ceramics company who make bathroom ceramics like sinks and toilets.

As well as some money from China for Ma Qing Hua to test the car at Silverstone.

Id recon Ma Qing Hua will be bringing €1.2m to the team and the other sponsorship arround €800,000 for the rest of the season. €2m that HRT cant do without.

[cbbcisace]

There are 4 new sponsors on the F112 today.

There are 2 personal sponsors for Ma in TAG and Olympus.

I will post who once I get in later from work.

[cbbcisace]

OK so these are the "new" sponsors seen today:-

Bell - Front Wing End Plate // Olympus/Tag Heuer - Ma's Helmet All Personal Sponsors

Roca - On Engine Cover/Top of Chassis.
Tuye - On Sidepod Turning Vane
Weibo.com - On Sidepod/Top of Chassis
Precise - On Rear Wing Endplate

The team have just confirmed to me, that the stickers was just on for today, but "will be on again if Ma drives this season"

[beelsebob]

OK so these are the "new" sponsors seen today:-

Bell - Front Wing End Plate // Olympus/Tag Heuer - Ma's Helmet All Personal Sponsors

Roca - On Engine Cover/Top of Chassis.
Tuye - On Sidepod Turning Vane
Weibo.com - On Sidepod/Top of Chassis
Precise - On Rear Wing Endplate

The team have just confirmed to me, that the stickers was just on for today, but "will be on again if Ma drives this season"

That "if" sounds a lot like "when" to me.

[SeijaKessen]

OK so these are the "new" sponsors seen today:-

Bell - Front Wing End Plate // Olympus/Tag Heuer - Ma's Helmet All Personal Sponsors

Roca - On Engine Cover/Top of Chassis.
Tuye - On Sidepod Turning Vane
Weibo.com - On Sidepod/Top of Chassis
Precise - On Rear Wing Endplate

The team have just confirmed to me, that the stickers was just on for today, but "will be on again if Ma drives this season"

That "if" sounds a lot like "when" to me.

It can't come soon enough, I'm sick of seeing Karthikeyan's name on the TV screen.

[Petroltorque]

This month's Race Car Engineering has an article on the HRT and their chassis. It also puts to bed the assumptions that the F112 is a completetely different car. Cuquerella states that the car is still heavily based on the previous Dallara designs as they lacked the time/ budget to design a completely new car. The changes are related to the need to improve internal cooling and accomodate KERS, which by the way, was what I had been saying all along.
The conception of the car is frankly a shambles with several different companies in different sites involved in manufacture and design.
The other revealing aspects were that the lack of budget means they are severely limited by what they can achieve. They are attempting to concentrate on the aero side but even the new wing is still based on the previous rudimentary design. HRT lack an engine deal for next year but it looks like they can't afford to change engine supplier. They are still buying in design technology from outside and still have to setup their own drawing and design office in Madrid. One's left wondering just how much money Thesan Capital are ploughing into this project?

[cbbcisace]

This month's Race Car Engineering has an article on the HRT and their chassis. It also puts to bed the assumptions that the F112 is a completetely different car. Cuquerella states that the car is still heavily based on the previous Dallara designs as they lacked the time/ budget to design a completely new car. The changes are related to the need to improve internal cooling and accomodate KERS, which by the way, was what I had been saying all along.
The conception of the car is frankly a shambles with several different companies in different sites involved in manufacture and design.
The other revealing aspects were that the lack of budget means they are severely limited by what they can achieve. They are attempting to concentrate on the aero side but even the new wing is still based on the previous rudimentary design. HRT lack an engine deal for next year but it looks like they can't afford to change engine supplier. They are still buying in design technology from outside and still have to setup their own drawing and design office in Madrid. One's left wondering just how much money Thesan Capital are ploughing into this project?

Lets not get into assumptions re Engines etc, the team are stating they haven't signed up to an Engine supplier for next year.

I like Toni C honesty in that article and it shows that what can be done on a limited budget they have had for the last 3 years.

Reading the article it is said that if they had started earlier than September 2011 the car would have looked different but they started with a 2011 baseline and is a completely different car to the F110 and F111.

[Petroltorque]

It's really a question of semantics whether you believe a car based on the same concept but with certain detail changes is a completely different car, but that's another topic.
If anything the situation at HRT is an illlustration of how not to set up a team on a limited budget. Thet have commissioned design and build from several different companies with little or no control over outcome and quality control.
F1 is now an purely aero dependent formula complicated by rubber that' won't tolerate excess tyre slip. To be competitive this year requires a complex front wing and downwash exhaust, something marussia introduced at Silverstone. HRT with adequate funding MIGHT achieve that next year.

[marcush.]

I think Tony has only stated that they did base their design on the Dallara ... in the same way that almost every other team works on some sort of legacy or carryover .In the early days you just had not the workforce to not carry over parts and designs ...going as far as you did not even have drawings for every bit ..today you start your work on CAD rarely with a clean sheet all is evolving and morphing from what you already have...
It could be called best practise method...

[cbbcisace]

It's really a question of semantics whether you believe a car based on the same concept but with certain detail changes is a completely different car, but that's another topic.
If anything the situation at HRT is an illlustration of how not to set up a team on a limited budget. Thet have commissioned design and build from several different companies with little or no control over outcome and quality control.
F1 is now an purely aero dependent formula complicated by rubber that' won't tolerate excess tyre slip. To be competitive this year requires a complex front wing and downwash exhaust, something marussia introduced at Silverstone. HRT with adequate funding MIGHT achieve that next year.

Can I ask Petrol, why we keep going to Marussia, HRT have said this year they would be the worst team and plus Marussia have £10-15m more in their budget.

Who says that a complex front wing and down wash exhaust is not on the agenda? it may be a little basic to the other teams,, but if it keep them competitive?

And by the way Marcush is right, there is a certain carry over in design's I read a interview somewhere that even McLaren have carry over.

[marcush.]

To me carry over is just normal why redo everything when you are in evolution mode anyways..When is a design all new? when having to produce a new mold or using a new material ,going from pullrod to belt suspension or is it all new when changing the spring rate or bolt spec...i think the teams use their words just as it fits to their agenda .And HRT is well advised to explain just why it is not possible to raise further up with the given recources.
Personally I´´d like to see what a team could achieve with a strict copy and paste agenda like nsmikle proposed .with 3d scanners available it must me a straight forward job to lift yourself right into the ballpark in terms of front wing design?

It´s obvious it´s not hideable -all you lack is some infromation about plies and construction methods or processes but as a lot of teams do outsource or teams have stopped there is good expertise about these things availlable (just think about Toyota -who had build up a considerable network of suppliers doing the suspension bits and wings for example..

[Petroltorque]

I am comparing HRT to Marussia because that's the team they are measuring themselves in every pre race press release. I just don't see the gains in performance that everyone is banging on about.