Hamilton Vs Rosberg 2014

[SectorOne]

The more LH is out-qualified (his no-doubt biggest strength) the more I hear how he really is the faster one, against all logic.

How so? He´s quicker on average over a lap this year then last year compared to Rosberg. (-0.237s to be exact)
Apart from not setting a time in Austria he´s never started a grand prix off the first row.
Rosberg has started started on the second row 4 times this year.

There´s a smaller difference in speed between Bottas and Massa then there is between Hamilton and Rosberg.

[Chene_Mostert]

The more LH is out-qualified (his no-doubt biggest strength) the more I hear how he really is the faster one, against all logic.

How so? He´s quicker on average over a lap this year then last year compared to Rosberg. (-0.237s to be exact)
Apart from not setting a time in Austria he´s never started a grand prix off the first row.
Rosberg has started started on the second row 4 times this year.

There´s a smaller difference in speed between Bottas and Massa then there is between Hamilton and Rosberg.

I assume you looked at data up to Austria? In that case it's a moving target and will significantly change over the course of the season. It would be interesting to see the average over the last 3 or 4 races. Would you mind to do the calculation?

[PlatinumZealot]

Even Austria on race pace Lewis manage to preserve his tyres better and save more fuel but was inhibited by slow pitstops and KERS issues again. It was fun watching Ham cut Rosberg's lead down at the end but unfortunately we were denied a fight for the victory from the first pit-stop. I haven't seen Rosberg gap Lewis on the track before and I would be pleasantly surprised if he can do it... that would make the Championship fight even more interesting... Especially since the two garages are starting to hide setup information from each other now...

[Richard]

Trolling posts have been deleted. Please keep this civilised.

[SectorOne]

I assume you looked at data up to Austria? In that case it's a moving target and will significantly change over the course of the season.

Yea it made sense to do it that way, it will probably change but i don´t have a time machine.

It would be interesting to see the average over the last 3 or 4 races. Would you mind to do the calculation?

We can cut out any part of the season to favor either driver so i felt taking into account the whole season is ideal in this case, i´m positive you´ll agree.

[adrianjordan]

So Lewis is better at saving fuel but isn't being allowed to use that to his advantage...at east that's the way I see it...and that seems incredibly unfair to me...

[PlatinumZealot]

So Lewis is better at saving fuel but isn't being allowed to use that to his advantage...at east that's the way I see it...and that seems incredibly unfair to me...

Yeah. I can't wait until the WCC is decided so we can see the Team orders get rid of.

Does anyone know what race we can expect Merc to win the WCC?

[thomin]

So Lewis is better at saving fuel but isn't being allowed to use that to his advantage...at east that's the way I see it...and that seems incredibly unfair to me...

I think that's a big myth that has cropped up recently. For one (and most importantly) we don't know how much fuel each driver starts with, so this is all guesswork to begin with. Secondly, there is the fuel flow limit, so you can't just crank up consumption at will. Remember, it's peak flow rates that are important here. Thirdly, there are other limiting factors on your engine setting, most notably heat which was a big issue in the last two races. Lastly, even if all that weren't the case, more fuel doesn't necessarily equal more power as the engine and turbo charger are constructed in such a way that "excess power" (for the lack of a better word) is fed into the battery pack, which is why the current engines don't rev anywhere near the allowed limit, it just does t give you any more power, it only costs more fuel and the batteries can be charged with less.

[SiLo]

I think its clear he uses less fuel over a grand prix, but whether they put less fuel in his car because of that is unknown. It would make sense to, but then if something happens and he can't do that they might look a bit silly.

[Stradivarius]

I think its clear he uses less fuel over a grand prix, but whether they put less fuel in his car because of that is unknown. It would make sense to, but then if something happens and he can't do that they might look a bit silly.

It seems obvious to me that if Hamilton indeed needs 1-2 kg less fuel than Rosberg, then he starts the race with 1-2 kg less fuel. There is no reason why Hamilton would need a greater margin than Rosberg to avoid looking silly if something happens. In other words, they may aim for Hamilton to finish the race with 1 kg of fuel in hand, just to be on the safe side. But in that case there is no reason why they shouldn't also aim for Rosberg to finish the race with 1 kg of fuel in hand.

[Constructr]

Lewis may in fact be the "quicker" driver but to win a Championship, a driver must be smart, too. A little luck doesn't hurt either. Nico is definitely the "smarter" driver. If Lewis had maintained a 2-3 second gap in Canada until closer to the end, he probably wouldn't have cooked his rear brakes and might have been able to overtake Nico and won. Lewis has had a bit of bad luck this year as well.

[SidSidney]

Lewis may in fact be the "quicker" driver but to win a Championship, a driver must be smart, too. A little luck doesn't hurt either. Nico is definitely the "smarter" driver. If Lewis had maintained a 2-3 second gap in Canada until closer to the end, he probably wouldn't have cooked his rear brakes and might have been able to overtake Nico and won. Lewis has had a bit of bad luck this year as well.

I made a controversial post about this some time ago, about Hamilton's "luck" in converting poles to wins and points.

The simple fact is - for whatever reason - Lewis is consistently less able to convert poles into podiums and points than almost all his team mates, both at McLaren and so far at Mercedes. With the single exception of the 2008 season against Kovalainen, he has consistently underperformed his team mates in points and wins per pole, and by a huge margin.

It may not be obvious, but if you tally the total points each team mate has gained over their time in the same team as Lewis, every team mate except Kovalainen has scored more points in the same timeframe. At McLaren Button scored 767 points between 2009-2012, while Hamilton scored 706, and this is despite Lewis gaining 11 poles to Button's 4. In the shorter period at Mercedes, Rosberg has scored 336 points to Hamilton's 325, but again Lewis has 9 poles to Nico's 6.

And I am sure some people will say what about his bad luck at X or Y race - but it doesn't really matter whether it's through his own fault or the car or team; it all counts to his points-scoring record. Some drivers - even team mates - seem able to negotiate those issues better.

I'm not a Lewis hater, I understand he is quick and talented, and very entertaining. I am just interested in trying to predict where this all goes. My view is that this is something that the multiple-WDC drivers come to understand and work with. They learn to squeeze points out of slower cars or worse starting positions. And because of that I am willing to bet that Rosberg ends up WDC this year, just based on the points/pole number so far this season - he is outscoring Lewis at an almost 55% advantage.

[SectorOne]

Or some drivers simply have more poles then they have wins. Vettel, Senna, Fangio, Hamilton, etc all have more poles then wins.
And some other like Schumacher, Raikkonen, Prost, Alonso have more wins then they have poles.

Predicting championship outcomes from this is amazing..

For example,

1. Schumacher - more wins then poles - 7 titles
2. Fangio - more poles then wins - 5 titles
3. Alain Prost - more wins then poles - 4 titles
3. Sebastian Vettel - more poles then wins - 4 titles

Seems to me both ways work brilliant as far as gathering titles.
And i think the last time you mentioned that, we got to the same conclusion.

[Mandrake]

I think its clear he uses less fuel over a grand prix, but whether they put less fuel in his car because of that is unknown. It would make sense to, but then if something happens and he can't do that they might look a bit silly.

Can someone dig out statistics of the races where Hamilton lead a race and Rosberg was all over him in close distance? Did he then also use significantly less fuel Rosberg? I still believe that a huge portion of the saved fuel comes from shadowing the other car. Fuel is saved by lifting and coasting mostly, which can be done a lot better when trailing another car as you can lift&coast a lot earlier because the air does not slow you down as much as in clean air.

If that is the truth, then Hamilton should be fueled less, because if he ended up in front, he'd need to save fuel more than the others.

[SectorOne]

Can someone dig out statistics of the races where Hamilton lead a race and Rosberg was all over him in close distance? Did he then also use significantly less fuel Rosberg? I still believe that a huge portion of the saved fuel comes from shadowing the other car.

In Spain he was hounded but with 1-2 laps to go he had used 3 kilos less fuel during the race.