Imminent F1 shakeup?

[FoxHound]

Cam,

You have based your opinion on engines being frozen. Which have clearly found performance gains in season.
You continuously asked for evidence to support that.

I have provided it now. 60hp.

Did you think that in the unfrozen Formula with unlimited testing and upgrades that a 60hp gain was realistic in 4 months?

You should accept that these are new PU's.
Renault have their path set, and cannot simply split a turbo as Mercedes have done and implement this change quickly.

Even in unlimited regs that would take nigh on a full season to achieve.
This has everything to do with Renault starting well behind, and blaming the rules for this in spite of clear performance gains is simply wrong.
Quoting Vettel who has a vested interest in berating the engines is not of any consequence here as he provided no information other than "we are behind".
Yes, they are.

Now tell me cam...are they behind because of the rules or because Renault screwed up?

My profuse apologies about your boredom issues, I'm not convinced by the scale of your replies to my posts that it is definitively an issue with me. But, as you like it cam.

[FoxHound]

Ben...

I want 60 flogged horses please... all of them frozen and lame. But defrostable after 4 months.
I thank you in advance

[SectorOne]

Today was the day i ignored Cam. I tried i tried i tried but it´s obvious his issues transcends tiny discussions about engine power.
His issues lie with the fact that a certain domination ended over night and he still haven´t really accepted the new reality yet.

When you resort to accusations then literally begs for respect you know something is F´d up.
These discussions merely acts as some sort of comfort until he finally let´s it go.

[bhall II]

Ben...

I want 60 flogged horses please... all of them frozen and lame. But defrostable after 4 months.
I thank you in advance

Eh, mine was a comment on the nature of a discussion whose parameters haven't really changed, despite Maldonado's revelation, or Vettel's statement. At its core, this is a philosophical argument about the complexion of F1's current regulations. That means there's no right or wrong answer; only opinions one way or the other.

(Plus, as a Ferrari fan, there's only so much beating of a dead horse I can withstand, yanno?)

For someone who disagrees with homologation, the results are effectively inconsequential. I mean, it's theoretically possible that Mercedes' power unit advantage will be totally eroded this season if the full, homologated potential of rival designs can be unlocked. But, if that happens, would it really say anything about the propriety of the regulations under which it all occurred?

Conversely, someone who agrees with, or at least accepts, homologation, can legitimately point to the equal treatment of all teams under rules that are, by nature, always arbitrary. In other words, that viewpoint essentially says the rules themselves are inconsequential so long as they're applied with an even hand. While it's completely valid, it deliberately says nothing at all about the propriety of the regulations.

My personal stance against homologation is two-fold: it's never been a part of Formula One's DNA, and it places an impenetrable ceiling on potential such that the ultimate pecking order is decided long before on-track competition even starts. That's the most objective way I can see it.

(Of course, I could be wrong.)

[Cam]

Today was the day i ignored Cam. I tried i tried i tried but it´s obvious his issues transcends tiny discussions about engine power.
His issues lie with the fact that a certain domination ended over night and he still haven´t really accepted the new reality yet.

When you resort to accusations then literally begs for respect you know something is F´d up.
These discussions merely acts as some sort of comfort until he finally let´s it go.

By using the 'Ignore' button, does that mean you're embracing ignore-ance?

I was just about to crank out the story of two farmers. You'll miss it. Shame.

Two farmers, one with a 10L bucket, the other with a 20L bucket. When the second farmer could carry 100 apples, the first farmer could only carry 80. So the first farmer develops smaller apples, so he can now carry 120 apples. But farmer two can do the same, with his smaller apples, he can now carry 150 apples. No matter what the first farmer could do, whether that be grow smaller apples to carry more fruit, or pulp them to fill the bucket with apple juice, the other farmer could do the same and always 'gap' the first farmer. The only way the first farmer could find parity was to get a 20L bucket. But he's not allowed.

Insane eh?

[FoxHound]

Ben,

I agree that homologation should not be within the fabric of a competitive racing series. But it has been since the end of 2008.
I entered the discussion on Farmer Joe's posit that 2014 as a series was dead because of homologation. To the point whereby prayers of hope were offered in the general direction of Mateschitz and co....I schitz you not.

The only hope now I have for 'real' top tier open wheel racing, comes from a glimmer of news combining Adrian Newey, Red Bull Technology Centre and Red Bull buying Viry. Newey is a racer, Horner can manage anything and Red Bull can put on a show. I hope for the love of all that is petrol pure and holy, that Mateschitz is planning a coup.That shakeup, would be massive, and welcome.

Completely forgetting that Red Bull had in fact benefited from homologation from 2010 through 2013, the coincidental years they won all there is to win.
But it's something SectorOne bludgeoned in on.....if your favoured team ain't winning it's easier to point fingers, and forget the conditions the favoured team won their titles. Ie engine manufacturers hamstrung by the engine freeze and also the "equalisation of all engines" because Christian Horner believes

"engines should not be a performance differentiator."

This actually happened.

Now we have apples and buckets!

[bhall II]

Just to be a pedantic ass, the foul stench of homologation descended upon the sport at the end of '06, not '08.

Otherwise, I agree with you. The Renault V8's diminutive fuel and cooling requirements did indeed give its teams a significant packaging advantage. I suppose I can understand someone not seeing that, though, as the connection between the engine and aerodynamic efficiency is a bit more removed, or opaque, than the connection between the engine and horsepower. But, it's nonetheless very real.


Sidepods as slight as Bernie Ecclestone's conscience

The less said about the other stuff, the better, I think. For, much like a teenage girl, I can't even.

[FoxHound]

Ahh yes, but some changes were allowed along the way until "equilibrium" was reached in 09/10.
Which makes me think...who decided they were equal?
Which parameters did they make decisive?
Heat dissipation, fuel consumption, mass and dimensions couldn't have been high on the agenda clearly.

My interest is gathering apace though, at what prospects lie in wait for F1.
I've been writing Bernie off for yonks...but like those stale farts on humid days that seem to develop extraordinarily potent staying power, he remains.
But I think the window is in the process of being opened, and the odious lingerer could be on his way out in gust of Glade scented fresh air.
This whole FRICs episode has his fingerprints on it...cant prove it mind but i just get that vibe, ya know?

There is a caveat, as ever. If his replacement is of the same ilk, and of the same cutting nature, I would say F1 will have a very slow and painful death.
In this world of information, people see through the bullshit being sold by BE.

No F1 on social media "cos we don't make money from it" is an attitude so archaic...it defies belief this man is still in control of the sport.
Youtube videos taken down almost immediately due to copyright permissions. Is it a surprise then that sport is suffering when massive growth drivers are overlooked for.... titanium spark blocks.

Yes Bernie...cos that will work!

And to cap it all off, I'm under the impression that his successor in waiting is/was an investment banker?

Wonderful.

[bhall II]

Incidentally, a University of Exeter study recently published in the journal, Medicinal Chemistry Communications, discovered that smelling farts may reduce the risk of cancer. I guess we can say that crop dusting a group of strangers is now a public health service and that giving someone the ol' Dutch Oven is truly an act of love.

Ew! My mouth was open!
"But, baby, I love you. It was for your own good."

Last I read, F1's potential supremo-in-waiting is Peter Brabeck-Letmathe, a man who, as chairman of Nestlé, once claimed that access to water is not a human right. That's not surprising, given his company's conduct with public water supplies. I suppose it also makes him a perfect fit for F1.

In other words, it's probably best not to get your hopes up for any positive changes in the future.

[FoxHound]

Good lord....I won't ask how you came across the information, suffice to say it's already being digested by my girlfriend.

As for the Nestle man....maybe keeping Bernie isn't such a bad idea.

[bhall II]

Well, all anyone really needs to know is that I didn't come on that information. So, it's kosher.

It looks like Ecclestone could be given the boot, regardless of anything, even the outcome of his trial in Germany. (I've been sorta following it, and the prosecution's case thus far appears surprisingly weak. Gribkowsky was a terrible witness. So, I won't be surprised if Ecclestone walks.)

Perhaps a shakeup is indeed imminent, though.

[garrett]

Imminent shakeup because of Montezemolo`s constant whining? Are you joking???

Well, it´s time again....Groundhog Day with Monte: http://apocalisselaica.net/en/fuori-tem ... o-tassisti So, nothing to care about.

Last time (June 2014) answer by JS, still effective: http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2014/06/ ... racefully/

There may be a shakeup of regulations....in the year 2020. Anyone who even thinks about a change of engine format before that date has not the slightest knowledge about F1. Additionally, Montezemolo better should take care of his own business, as also Ferrari has a supervisory board. He is, at least, responsible for that revamp, after the last title year:

After the end of the 2007 season, Ferrari President Luca Cordero di Montezemolo announced a new structure for the team, with Jean Todt departing the team principal role and moving up to his senior role as CEO of the company, Stefano Domenicali took over as team principal as Ross Brawn declined a return following his sabbatical (he became Team Principal of Honda F1), Aldo Costa as technical director and Mario Almondo as Operations Director.[24] It had been reported that this completed a shift in Ferrari personnel where the older foreign leadership was replaced with a new one composed mostly of Italians.

(wikipedia).

[bhall II]

Classic Joe Saward: only sees what he wants to see.

[FoxHound]

Well, all anyone really needs to know is that I didn't come on that information. So, it's kosher.

It looks like Ecclestone could be given the boot, regardless of anything, even the outcome of his trial in Germany. (I've been sorta following it, and the prosecution's case thus far appears surprisingly weak. Gribkowsky was a terrible witness. So, I won't be surprised if Ecclestone walks.)

Perhaps a shakeup is indeed imminent, though.

I tried and I couldn't come across that information.

So who are the other suspects in regard to replacing Bernard? Christian Horner's name has cropped up as far as I recollect.
Painful recollection. Christian "engines aren't meant to be performance differentiators" Horner.

How would this go down at Honda, Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault if he is the man to take the helm.
Wouldn't need to ponder long that these guys would likely take their toys and play somewhere nice.

[SectorOne]

If Horner was the only guy that would be viable i would say Toto instead. He´s a racer as Horner but seems to be a rather good business man at the same time.
He would obviously have to cut his ties with Mercedes and Williams (which he owns 10-20% in if i´m not mistaken)